How AI and Data Ownership Are Transforming Commercial Real Estate: Insights from Andrew Stanton

Introduction to Andrew Stanton and PropTechX

Drew: All right, welcome back everyone to the Peak Property Performance Podcast. Here I am, Drew Hall, and I've got Bill Douglas with us. Welcome, Bill.

Bill: Thanks, Drew. Let me introduce today's guest. Today we have Andrew Stanton, one of the most influential voices and the CEO of PropTechX. Andrew and I have been working together for the better part of half a decade, but he has spent the past decade working with over 1,000 PropTech founders across the globe, guiding more than 130 startups and advising on 16 successful exits. At least that's the last number I had for him. He could update that in a second. We've seen what's worked, what fails, and what's next in the intersection of property and technology. But here's what I love about Andrew's perspective. He doesn't see PropTech as the shiny object in the room. He and I have talked about this a lot over the years. We see it as a tool, part of a larger ecosystem where data and digital infrastructure are the foundation. And PropTech is the layer that makes everything run smarter, faster, and more profitably. So today we'll all talk about how PropTech truly fits into commercial real estate, into the owner and operator's arsenal, not as a bolt-on gadget, but as a multiplier of value when the underlying infrastructure is owned and controlled by the property itself. Also look at where innovation is heading. Andrew will share with us how investors are thinking about the next wave and what separates the operators who build enduring CRE companies. So Andrew, welcome to the show. Glad to have you.

Andrew Stanton: It's lovely to be here. Yeah. On the other side of the pond, I'm actually based in London, so I'm in the UK. But as we know, technology, commercial real estate is certainly a global phenomena. And come out of COVID, I think people started to rethink how it should all be plumbed together. But yeah, interesting times. And as Bill says, and Drew, we've been working together, yeah, many years. And when I first started, I didn't even understand, and this is quite common, what it was they were doing. Now I do. I'm a big advocate, but it's easy. It's always difficult because often you are telling people to use something different and also telling them why. So it's an education and also you need to be doing this. I mean, that is always, I think in itself, very, very difficult for adoption.

The Evolution and Current State of PropTech

Drew: Yeah. Well, Andrew, let's talk a little bit about the PropTech landscape itself. You've sat with more founders and investors than almost anyone in this space. What is the pulse of PropTech right now, as you would say, or as you see it?

Andrew Stanton: Yeah, I mean, the digital transformation of real estate is happening. We are seeing, obviously, we're coming from an analog world into this new digital age. And why I love it is, Drew, I'm 62, and I'm an old man and I always say to people, I belong to the past. We've got these digital natives now, the younger generation are growing up with all of this. And it's how they communicate and will traverse the world and the working world, which obviously will be most of their lives. And we've seen the migration of people from being in buildings to working from home and all the rest of it. But work is always going to exist. And coming back to what's happening in PropTech itself, it's interesting. Just now we are seeing this AI as it can be a burst of a bubble or not. A few years ago in property technology, blockchain was the big messiah. It was the thing that was going to solve everything. And that's kind of faded. I'm not saying, you know, there's certainly an amount of crypto going on in the background, but use cases for commercial real estate and things like that, not so much. Then AI, every time I get a deck, every time I speak to somebody, AI is the new messiah that will sort and shift everything. And again, going back to Bill's original point, it's much more than that. It's just everyone doing things better, more efficient. That's really what's at the core of everything. You know, AI doesn't solve anything itself. You've got to have people thinking, how are we using this tool to make something work more efficiently for all stakeholders?

Bill: So as billions and billions of dollars have flowed into PropTech over the past few years, what has changed since the initial hype wave? Where's the real progress versus where there might still be some vaporware?

Andrew Stanton: Yeah. I mean, that's a great term, isn't it? Vaporware. Make it up and convince people that it will be something. I think what we've seen is there are so many people doing the same thing, but then it just becomes a kind of attrition. Which of them will be the biggest? Will CoStar be massive in this area? Right. Okay. They dominate that. Will there be another big, large animal? So I suppose what's happening at the moment is consolidation following on funding is slower and they're pumping more cash into things they've already pumped cash into. Like a bad gambler. I always see it. We've put a tremendous amount of billions of dollars or tens of millions of dollars into certain things, and we're going to continue with that. And sometimes by pushing that amount of money in, it wins. But sometimes I scratch my head and go, that's cost an awful lot of money over a number of years for that to be the situation. But I think everyone is hopeful that AI will make everything good. And I still think 95% of what's being built out there will fail because I just think it's a natural part of it. I don't think it's wrong. It's just you don't know which horse to back. I mean, I'm not a gambler, but...

Bill: Andrew, I was at an AI leadership conference last week and it became apparent, not just I didn't think it up, I heard it, but it resonated is a lot of the software platforms we're paying for are starting to implement AI within their platform because it's more efficient and it's a cost driver down, right? Or maybe there's tools. So there are these tools that are purely AI startup, and then there's the behemoths that are just doing it. They're not even buying these anymore. They're just doing it. You used to have to have Calendly and now Google says, ah, we'll fold that into our... That's not AI, but it kind of is. Then you have all these email tools and Gemini is just saying, do it. Microsoft is saying, do the same thing inside of their tool. So there's going to be massive consolidation in AI, but I do agree that there's a whole lot of noise and what's the value before you put it in. That's the conversation we love having here about commercial real estate.

Andrew Stanton: Yeah. I think commercial real estate obviously is all about work, buildings, you know, the buildings we live in, bills we play in and buildings that we work in. And I thought what's quite interesting coming back to this AI idea is Amazon now, their workforce, they've got as many robots as they have human beings. And I started to think the other day that AI really is the thinking part of the workflow. So we use AI to work out what we should do and when. And in a way, is this becoming then the language that we feed to the robots? Because I'm sure that Amazon will not only have in their warehouses, robots packaging everything, we will have vehicles driven by robots who will arrive at people's residences to deliver. When that happens, it will then normalize robots, which will change fundamentally, I think, our view of what can be done by humans and what can be done by robots. And then it kind of turns into, OK, so we go into office blocks to do work. This work is cognitive work. Could it be done by robots? And if so, for many years, I've been using the word Amazon to people when I sort of say, OK, well, this will be like Amazon, i.e. a speedy service, get what you want and off you go and it's done. And now they're using robots and I'm thinking, OK, well, they're not stupid. This is the future. So therefore, what's the future of work? And I suppose coming back to OpticWise and what you guys do is, and I didn't realize this. I mean, when I first met you, Bill, I mean, nothing about commercial real estate. And you told me what model was, you know, you buy an asset, you fill it full of people and you buy another one using the money. And you said, yes. So what we do is we make them realize that model isn't working so well these days, not just Void and all the rest of it. I mean, they're in Texas at the moment. There's quite a lot of building going on, new buildings being built. So everyone is clamoring for a smaller amount of market because there's less people now taking on commercial units. And that's a real problem. So it's a case of how can an operator who owns a building maximize what's going on? And the other key thing perhaps we could talk about right now is who owns the data? Because I've never thought about this either, Bill, until you start talking to me. And I think as an individual, I think who owns my data is really important. But perhaps we can talk about you guys and how your thoughts on data in offices. Because you know, that to me blew my mind. I'd never even, I never thought about it. I just thought, well, you know, it's kind of all siloed off, isn't it? Who cares?

Data Ownership and Its Impact on Real Estate

Bill: I mean, it's a great jumping point and Drew, chime in. It gets me excited to think about it because if you don't have your data, somebody does and somebody's monetizing. We often talk first and foremost to commercial real estate owners and operators, like who owns and controls your data? Because contractually you might own it, but it's...

Drew: If you try to get the data, if you ask for a copy that you have the rights to, it's typically horribly unstructured and very delayed. It's not real-time data. It's not actionable. So, to own and control your data, you have to own and control the digital infrastructure. And commercial real estate, in our experience over the past decade, is very good at asset management and investing in that air conditioning unit or that facade or whatever it might be. And it's a very good asset management tool. And investing in that air conditioning unit or that facade or that countertop of apartments or a hotel, we have this glorified pool because it's going to draw people in with this restaurant food and beverage. And this office building is going to have this mixed-use or this golf simulator on the first floor. Sure. They're very good at that, but they let the data leak out.

Drew: We often say, you're going to bring up Amazon. Do you think Amazon would ever let another company come into one of their facilities, number one, put a network in their building that they don't own and they can't even use? But number two, let all that data go out the door with no rights to it and no monetary benefit from it. I think Bezos and the whole management team there would tell you to go pound salt. Like you'd be off. No way. Uh-uh. Commercial real estate does it every single day. And that's the core point we're just trying to get the industry to change on. So, I got in my soapbox a little. I'm sure Drew has something to add, but Andrew and I have talked about this for the past five to seven years, and we just clarified it in a book, Andrew, but you and I've had this conversation over and over and over again, like PropTech only works with good data.

Bill: So you can buy, and Drew has seen it, our clients have gone to put in PropTech smart thermostats, for instance. Sure. You can buy those and put them in. But why in the world are you using the vendor's network to get all of that data to their portal in the cloud somewhere? Yeah. Why isn't it going over your digital infrastructure and you have the data? Sure. They're going to need the data to do their thing, make the thermostats right. The vendor's not going to get excluded, but the vendor needs to be put in their spot. Like you're supporting us and this data is ours. That's the position shift in the mindset we tried to make in the book and what we talk about here every time we do an episode.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, the phrase that's coming to my mind is silent killer. Like it really is a silent killer if you don't view and organize and design a commercial real estate investment, physical property as one holistic system. Yeah. You need to make sure that there's enough complexity in the design so you have all the security and everything that's required. However, if every single system is just implemented in a silo, it's just a silent killer. It's only a matter of time before something goes down, before some vendor changes, before... There's so many scenarios that we see and honestly, time ultimately is the thing that induces that death of that particular system or whatever it is.

Drew: And then there's this scrambling of, well, what is that? Why is this thing down? I don't know. Well, it's usually Jim that we call. Let's call Jim. I wonder if Jim knows. Well, he has a key to that closet, but he loaned it to Jack, you know? And Mary knows where Jack is. And so like we talk about this all the time too, like a lack of documentation. So that's where I see it and comparing it back to Amazon. I mean, the question is, you would ask, would Amazon ever allow dot, dot, dot? No, obviously. No, no, no, no way. Amazon knows at any point in time if they need to pull it up. What does this build look like at this highly efficient operation that we just generically call a warehouse? It's so much more. They know what's working, how well it's working, what they might be changing out this month or next month. What's been working for five years, those types of things. What's about to go through a refresh, et cetera, et cetera.

Drew: I can guarantee you there's no lack of knowledge about any little system in the corner. And how does it or how does it not participate in the flow of information? What does it know? And that little system in the corner is not on its own network and it does not have siloed data ever. And we're picking on Amazon, but pick Toyota or pick FedEx or pick UPS. Go right through. Pick a hospital. They all operate on the same premise in this regard as Amazon about data ownership. Yeah. And it's true in commercial real estate. It's very loosey goosey when it gets into the tech side of things, because again, a particular vendor is called in and maybe it's a subcontractor who's called in to implement some system. Let's just say it's a new implementation and they do some things to make it work. And there's a little bit of, I wouldn't say a lack of transparency, but again, a lack of organization and design and documentation about what is being done.

Drew: It's just that at the end of it, those who, management, ownership, whatever, who hired them to do the job say, oh, look, I can do this thing. So the system must be good. Let's go. Let's, let's pay that invoice and let's just move on down the road. And there's no consideration for, well, is it going to work tomorrow? How do you know? How do you know it's going to work tomorrow? And even if it does work tomorrow, what do you know about it's working? Like, is it, is it, is it, is it sending data? Is it receiving data? Is it making decisions based on its own data, based on any data from any other systems? Those types of things. And so where, where we sit, we sit in this, I don't want to say permanent position, but we kind of sit at this higher level looking across the entire, let's just say one particular location, one particular geography of a set of buildings, let's say, and say, what are those systems? Is there a danger of redundancies, undesirable redundancies?

Drew: Because I realized that word has two meanings, sometimes positive, sometimes negative, but the redundancies that are in place, is it on purpose, right? Is it for the sake of a better design versus is this just a whole lot of extra costs and a whole lot of extra failure points that are contributing to nothing, you know, systems just for systems sake versus some kind of purpose behind it. So I do, I do think about it a lot in terms of, it's a challenge in commercial real estate to really think about it and push that holistic design compared to just the siloed approach. We didn't have that system, boom, let's get that system in place. Now it's working. We're good. And just not considering any, not considering that holistic design. So that's really challenging commercial real estate. And also what about security? Because I mean, who owns the data? It's got to be the client, hasn't it? In a building, it should be theirs.

Monetizing Property Data and Industry Challenges

Andrew Stanton: I don't think they, they kind of think about it, but for me, that, that would be the thing. It should belong to me. I mean, you don't keep the data do you? You don't sell it. You don't monetize it. Many companies providing services around this would say, okay, well, we'll, you know, be an aggregator. We'll sell this, you know, like CoStar, we'll sell loads of information. Yeah. Andrew, we get asked a lot. How do I monetize this data? And the first thing we'll say, that's probably every episode we repeat this, right, Drew? When we talk about data here, we are talking about data generated by the property, by the property systems that's owned by the property. We are not specifically not talking about personally identified information from any tenant or employee inside. So we see things as bodies, not as individuals. We do not track what they do. We have no intention to, that's an invasion of privacy in our opinion.

Andrew Stanton: So data that you could monetize is, there's a plethora of data you could monetize from your property, but we are not talking about selling user track and click and geofencing or anything like that. So collect the data, right, own the digital infrastructure, and then we can talk AI. But Andrew, what happens when a property owner skips the digital infrastructure step and jumps right to an application or jumps right to PropTech or this or that is going to solve this problem? And then they look the other way. Well, I don't think it's on their agenda. I mean, I think this is, you know, it comes back to when we first started working together. It took me five months and I'm a pretty clever guy. So my dog tells me. I can talk to a founder, I know you're not a prop tech, I know you don't see yourself as that, but I can be on the call with the founder and within 10 minutes or sometimes three, I've got the concept, right, they do this for this stakeholder, that's it.

Andrew Stanton: And, you know, in the early days, I was thinking, OK, are they supplying, you know, internet services? What is it? And then I realized what it was and I thought, OK. And then because I didn't really know too much about commercial real estate, the working models that, you know, the financial models, I was thinking, OK, well, what value has this? And then when you started telling me about how much money you could save people, I said, well, you can't tell them that operators because they wouldn't believe you. I think, you know, we had this conversation, OK, you know, you can't give them these figures. And usually when I say to people, you can't give them these figures, it's because the figures are small. With you, the savers were huge and I'm thinking no one will believe you. How can you get new clients telling them this? Because they, you know, I'd go, well, this does not make sense. Despite case studies, we do get cynicism. And then somebody will go do it on their own and they'll come back and say, you are right. We were leaving so much money on the table.

Andrew Stanton: But that's great because the industry is getting better, right? If they save money, then they can provide a better experience at a lower cost to tenants. And, you know, I do think we have a problem, not just in the United States, but across the world with rental rates and apartments. Investors have seen nice growth, but they also know that trajectory is not sustainable for all kinds of economic reasons. So, yeah, I'll get to a natural level. OK, Andrew, what do you think separates the companies that succeed from those that stall out? As you think about all the founders that you've worked with, is there any commonality to that bifurcation? Yeah, I would say for someone starting a company up to gain to a really useful exit. If indeed that's what they want. I mean, because because some people say, well, actually, I just want a big business. I know I've got investors and all the rest of it. But, you know, if we were turning over tens of millions every year or two, three hundred million a year. But in their journey, it's 25 key people I always thought will make the difference. I'm not talking.

Andrew Stanton: It's the people they meet by serendipity, the people they bump into or get connected to that will make all the difference and these people will be their advocates, people with advice. Yeah sure the money men are very very important and if it's not done money that's better too you know if somebody likes to invest in a certain niche and you're in that niche that's great. The founders are really important, the people pushing it and perhaps not to give up. One of my clients five years ago he started he had no real idea what he was doing. I worked out who he should exit to and I choosed him to that person or that company within the first month but he had no customers didn't know what it was and but in my mind I thought well they had a big need and he had a small thing that they would use you know a million times so that that's kind of where it works.

Andrew Stanton: So coming back to your point Drew, I always am quite harsh when I talk to founders because I just go yeah this sounds great, how are you going to make money? Commercial ideation, I always think okay would my dog buy it? Would my dog use it? I keep saying my dog, my dog has been on so many calls so many people over the years and been with me two in the morning when I'm tapping away my wife's going what are you doing? I'm going I'm tapping away with the dog. She's been with me on this journey and I truthfully think you know we get on a call it isn't so much what they're trying to do it's will they execute it as well that's the other thing. There are founders who get loads and loads of investment and they're like they never get out of the trench. They're like yeah we're just going to tweak this and all the rest of it and you've got other people who are saying well we're trying to sell this you know our revenue is going from you know five thousand dollars a month to ten thousand to fifteen to fifty to a hundred k a month and there'll be others who two years on are we still yeah we're still not monetizing this year and I'm thinking because you're scared you don't want to go out there because you know will customers buy? You need to be testing yourself.

Andrew Stanton: There's a problem and it isn't just in PropTech I think it's in the venture world largely. Founders think because they raise two, five, ten, twenty million dollars that they have a successful company. Absolutely. And I mean over the years have turned down money because that money starts to control the trajectory instead of listening to the market, making decisions. So the funding does not equate to success. I mean VCs know that they expect one in ten companies to return actually not one in ten are going to get a fifteen to one or greater return that's how the model works. So they know that nine out of ten of their investments are going to fail. How much money do they put in them in rounds two and three is their question later on. They hold back money for follow-on funds because they know some people are going to just get mired you know in mediocrity or never get a product market fit. It's a theory that didn't work.

Andrew Stanton: So we see it in all kinds of industries and we get asked all the time by clients who are your investors and we can pridefully say we don't have. We're profitable right we don't have big investors. Yeah which again is unusual. It's a proper business you know it's a proper business. But you are you know we run a press service. I get sent press releases every day multi you know millions or bidding in investment rounds. I'm thinking well this isn't news. What do you need the cash for? Why are you burning the cash so much? And it's just going to get you I mean if you're just going to spend money on marketing great if you've got market fit but if it's I need more cash because I need to build something else then you know that's often the way. I think we could do a whole another podcast on this Andrew but that's yeah it's our fault. We let it go that way.

Drew: I think Drew has a question I can see him itching to ask you. Yeah Andrew is there something that you wish more PropTech founders understood about the realities of real estate ownership?

Andrew Stanton: Yeah yeah I do. I think even now and I thought oh my god often these companies are built upon a personal moment. I call it you know the in the shower moment. They have this great idea or they're going through something they want to buy something or they were going to rent office space or going to do something and they go I need to solve this and I just think they should do a lot more homework but often I get on calls with people I say well there's 10 companies already doing this and some of them are quite big animals. You just thought of it but you weren't the first person maybe someone in 1968 thought this. Haven't you heard of this company by the way? And I've had people sort of say well they've stolen my idea and I go well you weren't even born then.

Andrew Stanton: So I think it's quite narrow sometimes that people have this very oh not knowing and I've always felt I get comforted when I talk to somebody who's about 42-45 and they want to do something in property technology you want to be a founder because I'm hopeful for 20 years they've been in that industry in that bit that doesn't work very well they want to change because I'm thinking they really know rather than the other guy who's you know or girl who's 26 who theoretically but has never done a day in the industry and I'm thinking you know sometimes that's useful because you can leapfrog okay we don't need to do it that way because it could be done other way but a lot of the time there are reasons why analog does it in a certain way because it's got to wait for everyone else or the other stakeholders to get modern you know if you're driving around in a electric car everyone's on horseback you don't get very far do you know you can't charge this thing the electric car you'll go a lot faster than these horses but they'll be the ones doing all the work and moving people and goods and services and that's what I sort of say to people you've kind of got to be in in the middle rank you can't be the star and you can't be at the back.

Drew: We can tell you from first-hand experience we have been early to market with some solutions and it requires being patient but you still have to provide services to a value to customers so you can derive revenue and be patient so yeah we some of the things that we're doing now we actually thought up nearly a decade ago but it was entirely too early so and now it's all about AI ready so but you work with players around the world Andrew uh not just not just in the UK so are there are there markets that are getting this right where you know property ownership and data actually align?

Andrew Stanton: Yeah I mean next month I'm gonna be a judge in Saudi Arabia now I don't work with Saudi Arabia but that's for my own reasons but I don't mind doing judging commercial real estate sort of companies and what they're doing because at the end of the day they're trying to build certain companies and do certain things and wouldn't say they're clients but I've advised people in China but not for money and again I sort of think well I live in the UK so liberal you know regime that we've got here in more well I suppose to tell kind of places like you know different places that um I think if you're a dictator and I mean I'm a bit of a dictator when I used to my own business it's kind of my way or the highway so I definitely was that kind of person but I think that if you're in a less liberal regime where things are done a certain way things can be done really quickly so you know this is why we're seeing cities and all that's being built in certain places because they're saying what this is the way we're going to do it and they don't have to worry about planning they don't have to worry about anybody saying this isn't good for us because they will just you know have a blank canvas they'll even relocate people or worse but they just say right we're building all this now I'm doing this and they can they can roll out you know a city in three and a half years now whether that's morally correct or not I don't know but they're using technology to do that and it just proves that oh my god you know this could be done really really quickly you know they're scheduled to paper and we use this so in my mind I'm not not conflicted I'm just sort of saying look I was born in the UK I see the world through that prism if I was born in China if I was born somewhere else across the world I would probably think this is the norm but in certain places you know here in the UK we have great problems over planning because people sort of say oh no we don't want that here and I'm thinking oh if you go to some other countries you would disappear you know you can't you have that opinion uh someone would say to you well you know we're going to build this this city is going to come whereas here we kind of it'll take 25 years so that holds back progress does it I don't know but it's very interesting to sort of see that technology also fits inside the political and the financial dynamics of different places I mean obviously we're seeing Dubai and different places at the moment they're just going crazy over property technology I don't know they know what it is but they're throwing a lot of money at it and it needs a lot of money you know it's like a rocket ship isn't it it needs huge amounts of money to get a small amount out of the other end but that small amount is really important.

Drew: I think the industry is right for consolidation because there's a lot of parallel activities even though four prop jet companies are solving four different problems their operational infrastructure and their customers infrastructure are the same so the expense caught the expense basis is 4x what it should be and you know capitalism heals that it takes time and it takes companies going out of business or get swallowed up but capitalism will solve that problem.

Andrew Stanton: Yeah I think you're absolutely right though that's exactly what's happening they run they run out of fuel and they stop and then in the end you look around and you go there's there used to be 17 of them now there's three now there's two now there's one.

AI's Role in Transforming PropTech

Drew: Yeah so Andrew in the next few years do you see AI changing the way that prop tech products deliver value is proving problematic for a lot of established prop tech companies?

Andrew Stanton: I was talking to someone the other day and he always said to me, look, I'm always worried about company X, Y, and Z breathing down my neck. They're quite a big company, and they sort of say, he said, I'm more worried now about the new company that's using AI to build itself because it can outstrip me. My technology is now quite old, and I want to sell my company, and I'm worried now about the valuation of my company because all these great things I've done and all the rest of it speak for nothing now because AI is so voracious. And I think it is. I mean, it's just eating a tremendous amount of industries and all the rest of it.

Andrew Stanton: And I mean, I do consultancy, and I say to people, look, I'll do your report, cost you eight thousand dollars and all the rest of it. And now I just say, get AI to do your report, and then we'll talk about it. I said, because the information is out there, and all I used to do is talk. But I mean, it's different for me because I actually talk to the founders, so I don't think AI is talking to the founders. It is picking up obviously stuff that's published, but perhaps not what's in someone's head that week, that month, which is perhaps where I'm sort of, I have an advantage, should we say.

Drew: Yeah, no, that's good because that was the second part of my question was, you know, the role that human judgment will still play even as AI is ramped up and introduced into avenues where it hasn't been introduced and implemented before.

Andrew Stanton: I don't know, I'm gonna upset you. I think it's the other way. I already think AI is more intelligent than we are and can think. People say, well, it can't think, and I think, well, anything that we can do, it can do but better.

Bill: They can do it faster for sure.

Andrew Stanton: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, the speed is incredible.

Bill: Yeah, that's its advantage, right? Does it really think right now? No, not at this layer, but you know, that is coming. But it has access to everything ever documented, right? And it can quote unquote think, but it's consolidating and streamlining so for your consumption in a very condensed manner. And anything that's ever been documented in the sense the beginning of time, it has access to, and you as a person does not. So we perceive that it's intelligent, but really it just has a depth of knowledge and a speed to deliver that.

Andrew Stanton: Yeah, so I mean, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that the younger generations at the moment seem to want to be work less. I mean, like you two, I mean, we've all worked all the hours, hundred hour weeks and all of us forever under tremendous pressure. And I would dream of working 30 hours a week, not as pressured because someone else is doing everything. But then there comes other problems because not everyone is created equal as well. There would be people who still would want to work 100 hours, and there are people who would quite enjoy not having to work.

Drew: Well, like you mentioned about that prop tech founder that's leery of the company using AI to build itself. I share with my sons often, like, you're not going to lose your job to AI. If you lose your job, it'll be to somebody using AI. So that founder, to his credit, is thinking about that relative to his competition. So how do you balance speed and sustainability and prop tech growth both for founders and for the clients and even the investors?

Andrew Stanton: I think the thing that keeps people up at night is not taking risks. So, and now we live in a very, very, very risky and change situation. You know, it's so interesting. We're kind of, I can remember when it was the millennium finder sickle, you know, year 2000, and now we're at 25 years on and everything seems to have changed so dramatically. World order, country order, obviously you have a certain president mixing things up in a certain way. And I sort of think, well, this unpredictability, when there's confusion, you've got to do something because to do nothing is dangerous.

Andrew Stanton: And I think what used to happen is you used to have companies who would incrementally grow their business a bit, look at what their competitors are doing, borrow the best ideas from those companies and try and keep ahead of the curve. And now you've got these really agile, tiny little companies coming from nowhere, wiping everybody out, who themselves five years later may just fizzle out because, oh my god, someone's just bought them for a fantastic amount of money and they weren't worth it because the fickle human beings now want to do stuff the other way.

Bill: Yeah, we call that FOMO, fear of missing out, right?

Mergers, Acquisitions, and Industry Consolidation

Andrew Stanton: Yeah, yeah, open the door, oh, I'm going to jump into this opening. Like, what's next for you and prop tech X? I mean, what are you most excited to see about that you are doing to impact the industry?

Andrew Stanton: Giving good advice. I mean, the funniest thing is I still work with founders. I've just taken a couple of clients who are doing diverse things. Mine's procurement, why is actually at the start he's trying to work out what it is that he should be fixing. And we're honing down and I say, whatever you want to fix, when we know what that is, I've got a whole host of people that I can plug you into who will, you know, mentor you and give you good advice and, you know, for free, but they'll challenge you on different things.

Andrew Stanton: I very much though, I'm getting into selling companies because I've now been doing this almost nine years and I've met so many companies over the time. They trust me and they come to me and often they'll sort of say, oh, I want to have a chat and I go, okay, you want to exit or you want to do stuff. So I get involved in that and that is fantastic because the main role I have there is setting the sale price. And again, this comes back to not, you know, I knew nothing about commercial real estate until I talked to you guys. I knew nothing about selling companies.

Drew: You were deep in prop tech, you just didn't understand the customer net.

Andrew Stanton: Yeah, I mean, I didn't, I didn't understand how you sell tech companies and all the rest of it, all the evaluations. And I didn't realize that you have to do due diligence and lots of different stuff and then you get to a price. And I used to sell property for 30 years, so I just thought, well, we'll get to a price, we'll agree it with the seller and the buyer. And then when all the others come in, all the analysts and everything, it's nonsense anyway, because at the end of the day, they want to do a deal. This company needs to buy this and this company wants to sell.

Andrew Stanton: And we did three of these and then someone said, this is bizarre, you know, what, we haven't got this fixed price. And I put my hand up and I said, well, I agree that I find somebody wants to buy them, I agree I find someone who wants to sell and I agree a price blind. And I said, but the deal is we stay at this. Of course, if you know this tech isn't what it's meant to be, you don't want to buy them, you don't buy them, but we can't play around with the price. And that's how I get them to sell and then to buy.

Andrew Stanton: And they're going crazy because sometimes they go, well, we don't think it's worth this. And other times they go, well, we think we can get more. And then I say to the founder, don't get greedy, you know, this is 30 million dollars, you're taking it, you wouldn't, you don't even know this company. But the funniest thing though is whenever we do deals, it's because they trust me and the dog, it's because this network. So we talk all about AI and all the rest of it, but it is this, I know that person, I trust it or I trust her, it's that network thing.

Bill: Yeah, you know, it's such a strange thing. So it's a very personal thing, isn't it? It's very powerful, which is why you do business with who you do business with, you know, and they want to stay with you. And you know, it's like, yeah, we trust these guys that they're gonna, you know, we're not too sure what they do, but it makes us money and that's what we want, you know, because bottom line, that's what you want. You want something that's trusted, you know, it's going to cost you money, but as long as you make more money than it costs, it safeguards you into the future, then that's a pretty good deal.

Andrew Stanton: I think I'm kind of more sort of M&A stuff, I guess, but not in a traditional way. I think if I'd been trained, I wouldn't have got away with what I know, but people trust me because they go, well, he trusts him, so we're gonna trust him, you know, me. And the end of the day, I said, you know, the company's resolved for, no one's come back to me, so that's a bad deal both sides because the founders tend not to leave, they're there for two or three years, there's no one out, then often they jump off into the company and they go and do something else in the company. So they not only do they get their money, you know, they get to say that fantastic.

Personal Insights and Career Advice from Andrew Stanton

Drew: Yeah, all right, Andrew, this final piece here, we call the extra floor. We take you to the extra floor, it's just a quick set of questions.

Bill: Sure.

Drew: To help our listeners get to know the human side of the leader that we're interviewing. So okay, here are the ground rules, they're very, very, very stringent. Okay, short answers, gut level responses, shoot straight or show whatever, have fun with it, whatever you feel the moment you hear the question. What's a book or a podcast that's shaped how you think?

Andrew Stanton: Because I've said podcasts, I mean, I listen to so many, it would be unfair, but I think podcasts are great. I walk my dog a lot to listen to one of those for an hour is fantastic. I couldn't name a book, I'll be honest with you, that jumps out to me right now, but I like books because I just like the tactile that it's in front of me as I get older, I can kind of hold it nearer to my head to read.

Bill: Yeah, well, in terms of podcast, it's pronounced Peak Property Performance, that's the way, that's per al the book.

Drew: Yeah, I expected Drew to hop on that one.

Bill: That was funny, I was just waiting for it. Like we are serializing it over a year and we're getting, I get people ask me about this actually, you know, they do read a bit and I'm hoping that's feeding back to you guys.

Andrew Stanton: Yeah, when you offered to let us run a piece every week for a year, I was...

Andrew Stanton: Flattered so yeah we take it seriously and think we built the content plan and we're just giving you something every week and we really enjoy that. No there are people you know we have a lot of people in that space and they do read it and they come to me and say why did we do it and I said well you know they've got a book and you know you want to write a book we do the same thing.

Drew: Well what's the best piece of career or life advice that you've ever received just pick one and share it.

Andrew Stanton: Don't get to the age of 60 and look back and think ah I wish I'd done something differently. Realize that every day you have option A, B or C and it doesn't really matter which you take you're just gonna take one and it will lead you on to the next thing and I'll lead you on to the next thing and I'll lead you on to the next thing. So I would say don't overthink it I very much do sweat the small stuff I do micro-analyze everything I can't stop that's just what's inside my head but it's useful when I work with people because I try not to let them down because my brain is saying we mustn't let them down so it kind of works for me but I think the advice is it doesn't really matter what you do and when because life has a nice way of there's been these arcs it comes around again I can think back in my life to when someone said that okay do you want to we're gonna make you more senior do you want to look after 20 or 30 branches or do you want to look after three and I said three because I thought that I was you know I wasn't ready and looking back I wish I'd gone the other way but then I think well it was decision at the time I thought I wasn't worthy I think most of us aren't worthy but that's how you do it isn't it you learn you learn on the job.

Drew: Yeah yeah I feel like you might have hinted at the answer to this one Andrew but what's a small daily habit or a ritual that makes a big difference to you?

Andrew Stanton: Yes but one hour taking a dog for a walk because there's two things to it one is I have to do it a certain pace because by what she tells me to the dog gets exercise so she'll stay calm but then if I get on a call something straight after I am so energized and my mind is buzzing and solved with stuff and you just so on top of it and yeah that's an hour of exercise I do like half an hour in the gym every day too I'm thinking you know it keeps me alive keeps me alert and it's time when you're turned off you know I tend not to have calls and stuff I sometimes listen to podcasts but I do that religiously and it keeps me mentally kind of happy because what would I write you know I mean I've got Anne my lovely partner it's a close thing you know I've had a burning house so I grabbed first the dog or Anne probably both one under each arm but you know what's a perfect day day with a dog you know so I think if you're doing something every day that you enjoy it keeps you happy and if you're in that good state I mean you know every day I see the dog I say you know are you okay I also talk to the dog and I think it's an important part of it isn't it this is human interaction we take the elevator to the extra floor and you took the express elevator because in one answer you took the next two questions is what's a simple pleasure you never skip and you like you said that too much as well and when you're not working what do you love to do that recharges you I think and a lot of times those aren't the same for people they think a simple pleasure is not the daily habit that makes a difference and you put them all together and that's the same it's when you're not working you like to do it that's it's very unusual that we get all three the answer like the kudos for you for having it dialed.

Drew: Yeah yeah I'm lucky because I work for myself like you guys it's so funny we work for ourselves we don't because we work for the paying clients yeah we work for the cleaner that's right you know who are the most demanding there are more so than a boss over your head it's but but you get to choose when you do stuff that's the key thing.

Bill: Well Andrew thank you so much for your time today this has been a fascinating discussion really appreciate it and thanks to everyone listening out there be sure to follow like subscribe all the things click it twice if you can and we'll see you next on the on the next step but see about to perform them click it twice Andrew it's always a pleasure today was normal for a fellow that's it Andrew.

Andrew Stanton: Yeah always a pleasure thank you okay love you see you guys take care.

Drew: Drew, thanks Andrew, bye Bill, bye.