How Digital Transformation Drives Value for Commercial Real Estate Owners and Brokerages

Introduction to Amanda Betts and Digital Transformation

Drew: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Peak Property Performance Podcast. It's me, Drew Hall, and I've got with us Bill Douglas. Welcome, Bill.

Bill: Thanks, Drew. Today, we have our guest, Amanda Betts. So, hi, Amanda. Before I read your intro, hello.

Amanda Betts: Hi, guys. Like you said, we're talking to Amanda Betts. Amanda is the VP of Marketing at Buildout, one of the leading tech platforms helping commercial real estate brokerages modernize how they work. Amanda spent years leading digital transformation across commercial real estate, as well as global brands, helping firms use automation and AI not to replace people, but to amplify them. A conversation we always enjoy, right? What I love about her perspective is how practical it is. She knows that technology isn't the end game. It's the infrastructure that frees brokers and owners to perform at a higher level. So, again, Amanda, welcome to the show.

Amanda Betts: Yeah, likewise. I'm glad to be here. I'm happy for the invite, and it should be a good chat.

Embracing Change: Overcoming Resistance in CRE

Drew: Right on. Well, so, Amanda, as Bill alluded to in the intro, the right digital strategy amplifies people. Technology doesn't replace people. But what are you finding? Do you find that many firms out there are still treating tech as a bit of a threat more than just a straight-up tool?

Amanda Betts: Sure. I think it's a little bit in human nature to feel change and want to be resistant to change. We know that sometimes this industry is not the fastest to adopt technology change either, and that's because you can get a lot of work done and make a lot of money not using tech. I know that to be true, but, yeah, I think there's some fear and apprehension of the unknown. There's a large status quo bias, too. This is the way we do it.

Amanda Betts: Yeah. I mean, we recently signed up a broker who branched off on his own, and I kid you not, he had a 150-page Google Doc, and he was running a very successful multimillion-dollar business based off this Google Doc. Of course, my heart palpitated a little bit of thinking of version control and error, but at the end of the day, I think, build out specifically, and I do believe that regardless of technology in CRE, it's still going to be broker-led, regardless of what tools or tech that's going to be out there, because at the end of the day, the best relationships, the biggest deals, the real differentiator is the human aspect, the human-to-human element.

Amanda Betts: But I do think it's where people embrace the fact that the process side of it, so the repetitive, the manual, the error-prone steps that happen in any systematic way, that's where software can step in. That's where AI, that's where any tool can really help in to satisfy it. I still think that technology is treated as a threat. It's more of, I think, too, the mindset needs to start at the top in terms of change, and then people can follow suit in terms of how they see their leaders adopting that.

Leadership Mindset: Driving Tech Adoption

Drew: That's perfect lead-in right there. You said mindset. So that was the next question I was going to ask here is, I'm thinking about a leadership mindset and how that can impact that willingness to go along for the ride, impacting that tech adoption. Like, talk through some of what you've seen or experienced or what you know to be true there.

Amanda Betts: Yeah, that's a really good question. I think it's important. I always like to start with a little bit of, everyone is a leader in their own right, regardless of the title or hierarchy or whatever. I think true leadership comes from your ability to influence other people around you, good for the good, hopefully. So I think what we've been seeing here, real success in firms is where leadership doesn't just mandate the adoption, they're modeling it. It's so easy to say, hey, do this, but monkey see, monkey do. It's where they should meet their teams where they already are at. So they should show how automation doesn't necessarily eliminate roles, but can elevate the ones that already exist.

Amanda Betts: I think of firms where they've doubled their monthly deal volume, not necessarily by hiring more admins, but by implementing tools that are going to streamline that entire listing to close life cycle, but they've been a part of it. So they're monitoring at every stage, educating, supporting, everyone gets their skin knees together, heal together and learn together, then it makes that adoption so much quicker. It just happens organically.

Bill: We talk about it internally a lot, Drew and I do. Any leader is the CRO, and I don't mean Chief Revenue Officer, I mean Chief Repetitive Officer. We just walk around, because everybody is a leader in their own right, we walk around repeating what the vision and the purpose is, because a lot of times the tasks get in the way of why are we doing this? Especially with technology adoption, we have to do that, because our team might not want to change. Once they do it, they love it, but doing it is not so easy.

Drew: Yeah, that stuck with me. You just listed it right there in the middle of the sentence, Amanda, what you said, modeling, not mandating. Yeah, that's excellent.

Amanda Betts: Yeah, sometimes it's easier said than done, but it's very, very effective, and just true. I have a buddy in my own team, I might not be a broker, but I do run the marketing function, and who am I to say do this, because it's going to help if I haven't also known or seen how it's going to help and do, right? So half the tools either my team brings, we dive in it together, or there's things that I've experimented with, I'm like, oh, that did not work the way I thought it was going to be, so I'm not going to make them use it. But it's a learning curve for everyone, and I think if you are willing to roll up your sleeves, we're all going to be better for it, regardless of the size of your team.

AI and Automation: Enhancing Broker Efficiency

Drew: Yeah. Are there any examples, I mean, obviously, anonymity reigns supreme, of course, but are any examples sticking out for you that you could talk us through about how brokerages are using tech to grow earnings at the same time without bloating their overhead?

Amanda Betts: Sure, sure. When I think about even some of the initial AI features that we rolled out, it wasn't because, ooh, that's fun, let's do it. It's because we talked to a number of our customers coast to coast, what are you finding to be the most mundane thing you do, and to the repetitive nature of it, what is the most mundane thing? And for them, it was, gosh, when we have a new listing, we then have to implement BOVs, the OMs, all the marketing materials, all this stuff, and we find ourselves persistently adding the listing details over and over again, or we're copying and pasting it, or we have one admin for a team of six brokers, and they're having to now do that six-fold in multiple tools, and it's just time-consuming.

Amanda Betts: So some of the most early adopters of our AI function were the ones where they knew that they can have AI built right into the marketing automation, they upload the listing details once, and it just populates the descriptions for them that then just automatically goes into all their necessary branding materials, and they're done. They're not having to re-copy it, or re-write it, or figure it out, or forget where it went, it just uploaded the information once, spit out a description that knows the industry, and then it just populates all of your materials, and off you go. So yeah, that was an early adoption, but it was an easy win, because it was just replacing the most repetitive thing within a tool that we know people were logging in and using every single day. So no need to be anonymous, because that's pretty much across the board.

Bill: Yeah, it's great for everyone, yeah. Yeah, you and I had talked about the one-to-seven model, Amanda.

Amanda Betts: Yeah, I never heard one-to-six, I always thought it was one-to-seven.

Bill: Oh, sure, yeah. It's like, you know, it's not to argue semantics, and you touched on how AI is helping prospecting and maybe marketing. How is it impacting deal flow?

Amanda Betts: I mean, across the board, I think, yeah, so the seven-to-one model, and Bill and I met the other day, we talked about it, I think on average what we see is about seven brokers to one admin, and certainly what we want to be able to do is amplify the broker side. I'm not saying you don't want to grow the admins, but certainly what we want to do is make the admins the most efficient, so then you can grow your brokers, because that's where you're going to make your money. And so I think from an entire deal flow perspective, you know, modern firms are going, trying to lean towards a 15-to-one ratio, I think that's what we're hearing. We're trying to get people to not just double, but then some, maybe even leaner in other respects, not because they're having people work harder, but because automation and that repetitive stuff is going to be happening more behind the scenes, that it gets the brokers back to focusing on the building of the trust, the closing of the deals, and like staying visible.

Amanda Betts: I think from a pipeline, I think your question was more about the lifecycle perspective, right?

Drew: Yeah, yeah, that was, you're reading the tea leaves, but that's where the next question was going.

Amanda Betts: Yeah, I think, okay, AI and automation, let me just take a step back, because I think this is really important. There's a little bit of a misconception, I think, sometimes with when how people talk about how to leverage AI or what to leverage from an automation perspective, I think people think the word AI and they automatically go to data scientists, custom code, or some kind of big investment. Is that a fair assumption? I don't know, maybe you guys don't feel that.

Bill: Very fair.

Drew: Yeah.

Amanda Betts: Yeah, and they get very intimidated by it, and they don't understand how, but why. Well, they, yeah, it goes to, I need technical talent. I don't know how to hire for that. I don't know what I need. I don't want to touch it. And it's expensive. You think technical, it's like, oh, can't afford it. Trust me, we hire engineers. Yes. But I think what we're seeing in the leading brokerages are simply the ones that are thinking the opposite. So back to maybe that mindset piece, but they're the ones adopting AI, but embedding it directly into the tools that they're already using, or trying to first start with, what are the tools already used today? What are the AI options already available to me? And starting there. And so that could mean the property descriptions example I already shared. It could be auto-populating of contact data and details throughout your cycle. So if you have a new contact that you're prospecting into, how does that feed across your CRM?

Drew: or their marketing usage, or even insights. Like what is the data that you can pull but it automatically feeds into your CRM so it's there for you? We're talking about this from the perspective of the brokerage, right?

Bill: Yeah. So, let's take a little sidestep for a second. What are the benefits the brokerage's customer, the owner of the property, feel from all this efficiency? Is it speed to market? Is it lower cost, higher margins, higher profit? I mean, how is this rolling into the actual CRE owner?

Amanda Betts: I kid you not, we had a conversation with a customer this morning, and they're very adamant about wanting to consolidate tools. Okay. Everyone is, it's budget season. I'm also like, what tool do I not need? Get it. We're doing the same thing here. I totally get it. We had a meeting over this last week. That's hard. Yeah. And what's interesting is, well, we show them a path to basically save 300 bucks a month. That was like $353 to be exact a month. And they were stoked. And we went like, what could you do? If you sum that up for the entire year, that could be an entire new broker bonus for you. You could bring on a better broker to join your firm because you have a better signing bonus because you just freed up dollars in your budget.

Drew: Okay. I love that example. That light bulb moment, right? Like, heck yeah, I do want to hire the best brokers. And yeah, I want to have a really best package for them so they can join. So, I think from the leadership perspective, they're consistently looking, how do I get competitive in this market? And the number one way is bringing in the best players to get the job done.

Bill: And that comes from efficiency and free cash flow, ability to pay or ability to derive. If your costs are lower, you can net out the same cost because you're giving more of it, awarding more of it to the brokers that are making the deals happen.

Amanda Betts: For sure. A hundred percent. I mean, we talk a lot about, yeah, the gross commission income, the GCI. How do you get more? Yeah, you want to be cognizant of what are the costs that are fixed versus flexed? And yeah, we want to be able to help you get more money in so you can make smarter decisions.

Drew: Okay. Yeah, because the audience is largely owners. And I know that we've had brokers on here too. So, that's why I asked the question. When we have property managers that are brokers and some that are vertically integrated and some that are separate and the brokers, they're all involved, but I try to tie it down to the owner all the time. So, thanks for clarifying that.

Data Strategy: Leveraging Information for Success

Bill: So, let's shift a little bit to the data and the digital infrastructure, the strategy there, the power of that. So, we talk a lot about this. So, if you own your data, you own your leverage. We know that. Why would you say for every brokerage and property to have a unified data and digital strategy? Like, how do you see that working its way out, the power of having that?

Amanda Betts: I knew this question was coming because we chatted about it. It's a tough question. And I will say what we've seen is different teams, different brokerages manage this differently, as well as different tech companies and data providers manage this differently. So, I will say, I think for products, if a firm is exploring, you need to ask yourself whether or not either they sell you a product or you are the product they sell. I think you have to be understanding of that and why you are comfortable within whatever that is too. I mean, build out here squarely the former, but I think one of the biggest shifts happening right now in CRE is this and is being uncomfortable with how brokers are handing off data within the tools, how they're not, maybe they are, maybe they aren't. And it kind of comes under control to some extent. I know there's a lot of the competitive nature, but I do think that early on tools or even some of the quick to rise tools, there's a lack of control or the control features to understand where your data sits or who has access to your data. These are the questions you should always be exploring. I do the same thing when I search out any tool. We have two pages in the book about what questions you should ask any vendor you deal with, any partner, any advisor, any broker, any consultant. And it's basically divulging, where is my data, who owns it, or who benefits from this recommendation you're making? Do you own the part of the company you're recommending I enlist with? It's just commercial defense that has worked well for us, me over the decades with multiple industries. Be transparent with your vendors.

Drew: Yeah, and portability, the word portability is coming to my mind. So oftentimes that data just kind of hangs out in the background and things are so busy. There's the noise of getting business done on a day-to-day basis. Sometimes that data, the idea of data flowing, it just kind of sits in the background. You don't think about it actively on a day-to-day basis, but truly, truly important like we're talking about. And so coming back to that word portability, like if it's there, if it's in the system that you buy, and hey, I'm not the product, I purchased this product and it's doing some great things, and it happens to be processing some data. Is that data portable? Can I take that data out of that system that we're paying for and move it over to fill in the blank? Doesn't matter where fill in the blank is, but it means where I want it to be in order to draw power from it. Like I plan to feed it into this over here and increase the power of that data. So I think that's the data independence, the portability.

Amanda Betts: It's two things, right? Data is leverage. That's not any different in terms of today's. I would say like if you're entering listing information specifically, I use it as an example because it's the most like understood regardless of property or broker type. But if you're listening, if you're entering or repetitively entering in your listing information and proposal comps and client preferences, all of that, that does become a competitive asset. If it lives in a connected system, I think where we see a lot of concern with data is when you're spreading that same bit of information across Excel sheets and inboxes and different disconnected tools, it just becomes noise. And then you run the risk of it getting out in a way that maybe you don't want it to get out. So you'd be really careful of, you might think you're doing things securely or behind closed doors, but if you are breaking that across too many other tools, then you're running the risk. Does that make sense?

Bill: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I think you're touching on data governance, which is a massive topic around this digital realm. I'm definitely not an expert. It's definitely something that we all have to be more mindful of. Just the more connected we are and the more tools that are out there for sure.

Drew: Well, and yeah, I mean, there's definitely the security here in terms of getting at that data, but the more centralized that data is and secure, obviously secure, does that also increase valuation and transparency? So what positive benefits does that have?

Amanda Betts: Yeah, I think there's a couple. So we're seeing that brokerages with centralized systems, where their data does flow from CRM into the marketing to deal close, all of that, not only operate more efficiently, which I'm gonna get back to that word, they're also commanding for stronger valuations. Because when it comes to exit or sell, they have all of it. It's right there for them.

Bill: Perfect, yeah. And also because the buyer can see the full book of business and stop, right? You're giving a very clean book to the buyer. They understand the pipeline, they understand the deal velocity, they see it all. And so that transparency, that can win over a deal any day of the week, really, because it's a part of the value. It becomes part of the valuation, not just the individual leading with that, but the firm overall. So I do think centralized systems offer a lot of value.

Amanda Betts: But efficiency is also critical. I think we sometimes think a quick tool or quick AI tool is giving us efficiency and it might within like that one element or that one prompt. But if you're having to re-engage that same piece of data, again, across multiple different tools, and that's not really efficient, it's only efficient in that moment versus actually giving you a streamlined, comprehensive view that gives you better valuation.

Drew: It's not impacting the process, it's only impacting the task. Yeah. Is that what you were saying?

Amanda Betts: Yeah, it's a beautiful way of saying that, yeah. I concur. Like, you know, that's the human piece behind digital transformation.

Digital Transformation: Beyond Technology

Bill: Yeah, for sure. We have this conversation a lot, like Drew and I do with every guest almost, it's digital transformation isn't about the tech, it's about the mindset, the people, the ability to adopt, or not adopt. Change management is a big issue. So how do you think leaders can keep agile and emotionally invested as AI and automation take hold? Because right now it's a lot of noise, a lot of vendors are barking, saying we've got you, we've got you. But how can leaders in ownership groups take advantage of this and what should they really do is the question.

Amanda Betts: That's a good question. I'm also kind of having this cheesy smile because I think the term digital transformation has been like the underpin of my career for like 20 years. That's why we wanted to have you on here. I get it. With us, like, have we started? Are we there? Are we at the midpoint? Where are we at? But I think, yeah, digital transformation isn't just about tech, it's also about that mindset, mindset adaptability. Yeah, I think that's something we talked about and I agree with that 100%. But you can buy the best tools in the world, but if your team doesn't trust them, or doesn't see the point of them, and then they don't use them, then basically what we've learned is that transformation lives or dies based on how well you're gonna invest on the human side of the business. And I've worked for a number of different companies. I've worked for $28 billion global brands to SaaS companies. Does not matter the size of the team. It does matter in terms of what is the quality of training and making space for training. I think we undervalue, everyone learns differently, everyone comes in with different set of experiences, but it does mean leading with empathy when people are overwhelmed or very skeptical of something, which is where we started this conversation. People are a little skeptical of it.

Drew: And overwhelmed. Overwhelmed with a noise, not necessarily a TAAF yet, but that curve is coming. Yeah. Speaking of the coming curve, I wasn't trying to bait it, but commercial real estate's next evolution can be driven as a

Amanda Betts: By mental infrastructure is digital infrastructure, right? That's correct. So how could you hold your team, after training them, more accountable? You in the role of an owner or a property manager, for instance, how could you see implementing mental infrastructure in a way that is successful as part of the digital transformation process?

Bill: I think it's fair to say, it does mean accountability, and if you're rooting it back to initially making space for training and giving people kind of like a good foundation, assuming that that has happened, it does then mean accountability. And not just in a punitive way, at least I don't think it should be in a punitive way, but in a shared commitment to growth, meaning if everyone has that shared vision and we're going after it together, then it's going to be way better achieved than not.

Amanda Betts: So I've seen firms who said, you know, we're going all in on digital, we're doing it, right? Then they pair it with some, you know, with white glove onboarding, weekly check-ins and celebrating the small wins, and that really becomes a formula, and it just becomes a part of their, like, cultural thread, versus put it out there, it's done, it's not being used. And then they give up, they wash their hands and move on. It has to be embedded.

Bill: So if you're having team stand-ups, or you're having the ring-the-bell moments, whatever it might be, factor in some of the behavioral wins you want to see people doing, not just like the big wins, they landed a big deal, but if you know someone has done something in that bandwidth of what you're trying to do for digital, and they've achieved the minimum for the week that you want everyone to see that behavior, you celebrate that.

Amanda Betts: I'm a big proponent of, there's leading and lagging indicators, right, in any performance or employee health. It's going to be really hard to get the laggers to be the superstars, it's almost impossible, right? Then that bell curve of performance, if we can understand what are the behaviors that get your superstars to that point, so if you have superstars who are adopting the digital, what are they doing on a day-to-day task, if that means they're logging in and uploading X amount of contacts in the system each day, celebrate that when everyone does it. It's good. Your accountability on behavior, and that's way more achievable then.

Drew: We, Drew and I here at OpticWise, put in like a decade ago, our core values, one of them is accountability, like no renters, we say own it, act like, think like an owner, no renters. But the other one is just find a better way to never stop learning, like always, there's always a better way, just because we do it this way now doesn't mean we won't do it, we have to do it that way going forward, so when we hire new people, we say, teach us a better way to do it, like you were in a different industry, in a different company, make your impact.

Amanda Betts: So the little wins start from day one, like there you go, make us better, you have leeway to do this, act like an owner. But at the same time, that gives them accountability, because then they have pride in ownership. So I always encourage our clients to do that relative to their digital transformation. It goes all fast, I mean, repetitive officer, right, it goes right back to, gotta say the same thing, share a vision.

Bill: I'm a daughter of a teacher, and so the perpetual state of constantly learning I think was always embedded in the back of my brain and upbringing, I thank her for that, and so I think that's probably why I went into marketing, because marketing is definitely a profession where the second you think you understand it, it's changing. So I'm happy to have these conversations even outside of the world that I might not play, I'm not an owner, I'm not an operator in this capacity, but boy, do I understand the value of constantly having to learn and shift and change, experiment, fail.

Drew: You're directly impacted by what you're doing, the build-out, yeah.

Amanda Betts: Yeah, that's excellent, always be willing to learn. Nobody ever knows it all, but sometimes not everybody knows that they don't know it all. That's a whole nother podcast.

Bill: Right, exactly, exactly. There's just no like is, if you find somebody that knows everything, you should probably distance yourself.

Drew: I was gonna say, yeah.

Amanda Betts: Because nobody does. You can't say, I don't know, then there's a problem somewhere. Even Chatty DT gets it wrong sometimes, so just, you know.

Bill: It hallucinates, yeah.

Personal Insights and Career Advice from Amanda Betts

Amanda Betts: Yeah, for sure. It does, yeah. All right, Amanda, so in the spirit of commercial real estate, what we do at the end of our podcast is we take you up to what we call the extra floor. So these last questions are just rapid fire, just five quick questions, gut instinct, good answers, short as you want them to be, what's the first thing that comes to your mind?

Drew: So the first of those five questions, what's a book or a podcast that has shaped how you think?

Amanda Betts: Looking for it on my little bookcase, Power of Moments, there we go. Almost lost that. Power of Moments is a really good, it's good for any industry, any role, any place in business, but yeah, the Power of Moments.

Bill: Nice. Love it. So what's the best piece of career or life advice you've ever received?

Amanda Betts: I think I just went to never stop learning. No, I think another good one is never hold back in showing that you're grateful. What I mean by that is it doesn't matter who they are, it doesn't matter what connection they are to you, it doesn't matter in the hierarchy or whatever role, if someone has done right by you, you let them know. I think we get too caught up in criticisms and constructive feedback and all that, whatever, but whoever it might be around you, if they've done you a solid, if they gave you good advice or they just gave a smile, you let them know that. It goes so far and it's amazing how well that can come back around tenfold.

Drew: Yeah, super practical.

Bill: Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. All right, what's a small daily habit or ritual that makes a big difference for you?

Amanda Betts: Protein shakes for breakfast, I don't have to think about it. I think Steve Jobs was like every morning, his routine's always the same. He doesn't have to think about it, takes out the morning stress. So yeah, protein shakes and my breakfast.

Drew: Fantastic. Well, what's something you've learned to appreciate more with time?

Amanda Betts: I think to answer the question, we do a little bit differently. I'm going to say with more time, it's made me appreciate how complicated time is. Meaning time is both a giver and a taker. So sometimes time can rob you of memories and understandings, whatever it might be. And so I think when you get more time in the day, it's out of that little pressure of how can I not forget all the little pieces. So I think the concept of time is not always a positive thing. It can also be something that can feel like it's taking from you as well. So I think the concept of more time, maybe sure I can get more done, but I almost want to take that extra time and do nothing and just kind of relish the moment. Because before you know it, next thing is happening and off to the next and off to the races. So I think with more time, taking it back for myself and just cherishing those moments.

Bill: Yeah. All right. Last one, Amanda. When you're not working, what do you love to do that recharges you?

Amanda Betts: Man, I'm a big fan of hot yoga. I used to hate it and I've learned to love it. I also highly recommend listening, just don't go into hot yoga, like work your way up because you might feel like you're dying within 10 minutes. But you really find some personal peace by the end of that session. But I'm a big fan of hot yoga. It makes me feel like I'm getting a lot done in a short amount of time. And it's both a peaceful mindset. You're also getting a good workout in. Yeah, big fan. I've learned to love it.

Drew: Nice. So Amanda, how can our listeners contact you? I know we'll put in the show notes, but tell us how.

Amanda Betts: Yeah, I mean, Buildout's door is virtually always open. So give us a shout. Obviously, I'm open for connections on LinkedIn. Always looking for a couple of good connections to have continued conversations. When in doubt, just go to buildout.com. Fun fact, if you email info at buildout.com, it comes to me and my team. So we can always help direct you if there's a question we can't answer. Yeah, myself and everyone at part of Buildout, we're a hoot. So give us a shout. We love to have a chat.

Bill: We're a hoot. I love it. All right, Amanda. Thank you so much for joining us today. And thanks to all of our listeners. Be sure to follow and like and subscribe, all the things. And we'll see you on the next episode of Peak Property Performance.

Drew: All right. Thank you, everyone. Bye.