Reducing Risk and Friction with Better Data in Real Estate Investing

Introduction to CRE Financing and Data Challenges

Drew: Welcome back to the Peak Property Performance Podcast. Today's theme, in CRE financing, why capital is not scarce, and how better data reduces friction, risk, and cost. I'm your host, Drew Hall. I've got with me Bill Douglas. Welcome, Bill.

Bill: Drew, great to see you again. Finally recording again in the new year. It's been a little delay. Our guest today is Moor Milo. Moor, before I introduce you, say hello to everybody.

Moor Milo: Hello, everybody. Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you. Moor focuses on a problem commercial real estate has lived with for a long time, and that is how fragmented data, limited transparency, and manual processes add friction and cost to the joyful raising capital part of this whole business.

Drew: Relly, R-E-L-L-I. He's helping bring more structure and clarity to how deals are evaluated and funded, not replacing relationships, but improving how decisions get made. Today we'll talk about why capital isn't actually scarce, how lack of visibility drives risk premiums, and what owners need to do as data plays a bigger role in financing. So again, Moor, welcome to Peak Property Performance.

Moor Milo: Thanks for having me, guys. Where are you sitting today? I didn't even ask you. Where are you?

Moor Milo: I'm in Irvine, California. So not too far from Disneyland. Just a 15 minute quick drive.

Bill: Oh, Irvine. Drew and I used to have ... OpticWise had a big client there some other time, but love flying in and out of John Wayne. It's the easiest airport in the world.

Moor Milo: I love it personally, myself. Long Beach is my ideal, but yeah, I can't complain. I live in paradise. Taxes are a little too expensive, but at the end of the day-

Drew: It's a sunshine tax.

Moor Milo: 100% accurate. Yeah. I look out the window and see snow. You have a sunshine tax. I have beautiful sunshine right out my window, so I am ... The tax is worth it, I guess. Here I am. It's working. It's working.

The Evolution of Real Estate Capital Markets

Drew: All right, Moor, let's start off with this concept that perhaps capital was never the problem. Rather, visibility is the problem. So the idea here is that real estate has always had capital chasing it. We know that. But what's missing is that clear, comparable data, the information. So from your vantage point, what actually breaks down between capital and deals in the traditional real estate model?

Moor Milo: What I would say is the business has been in a traditional format for a very long time. Up until maybe the last 15 years or so, deals have happened behind closed doors. So real estate financing, at least the equity component, with firms in the mid-market and in the enterprise scale level, are doing business and you'd never know about it. Millions and billions of dollars is changing hands behind closed doors, and it didn't require a presence of a brand. What it required was track record, some experience, provable model, and a good pro forma.

Moor Milo: And what has happened in the last 15 or so years is a lot of people have decided to become sponsors, creating a much more crowded marketplace of operators going and raising capital for the same capital, the same funds within those institutions and with those high net worth individuals. And over the last, let's say 10 years or so, with the advent of social media, operators have been able to generate brands that retail investors want to communicate with. And although operators may be great marketers, that doesn't mean great marketers are good operators.

Moor Milo: So you had a lot of operators in the space that have raised a lot of capital based off of promises that were made in pretty marketing decks, and deals haven't come to fruition. And retail investors are now in a position where they have more options than they've ever had to choose from. They have deals that are out and in the open through social platforms that are advertising them, and they've been burned by operators that haven't delivered on their promises.

Moor Milo: So in addition to the fact that there's some scarcity from the perspective of the capital, the retail capital, there's also a shift in the market around debt, which has shifted rates in a way where institutional capital can deploy in a less risky scenario and structure into similar deals that they used to have to put capital into the equity stack to be able to receive a significant return. Now they can do the same thing with debt. They can go get an 8, 9, 10, 12, 15% return on their investment based off of a first position lien, preferred equity, or some form of debt vehicle.

Moor Milo: So what you now have is a situation where real estate development firms have been very fortunate, and for lack of better term, spoiled in the fact that they haven't had to build brand for their businesses. They haven't had to build systems to ingest data, to be able to make decisions in marketing, in investor relations, in operations, to be able to diversify or differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack, to be able to gain access to that capital that might be currently scarce.

Moor Milo: So what we're seeing is that the operators that are full court press into technology, into marketing, into data, into systems, into trackable methodologies, are seeing results based off of more traditional corporate methods that we've seen in big fortune 500s and B2B businesses that haven't had the same good fortune of having a small group of experienced operators with a very specific and targeted audience of investors looking for those small number of deals.

Moor Milo: So now the operators that are taking on fortune 500 methodologies associated with their outreach, with their data, with their systems internally from an operations perspective are getting a leg up on other operators that up until now have been resting on their laurels from the perspective of having certain relationships that they can count on that have delivered capital for them to be able to deploy into their deals that now is being distracted by better rates around debt, by a larger total sum of operators raising capital and a scarce marketplace where investors have been burned.

Moor Milo: So more than ever, real estate developers are having these wake up moments and saying, oh shoot, what we've done for the last 15 years isn't going to work for the next 50.

Understanding Retail vs. Institutional Investors

Bill: I have to chuckle. We have the same experience with operators on the digital and the data side as well. You said something about a retail investor. So for the audience sake, clarify what you meant by retail investor.

Moor Milo: So retail versus institutional, right? Institutional would be large companies that professionally deploy capital, right? Retail investors are usually individuals or what you would consider a family office, right? That has a high net worth and it can deploy capital as an individual.

Bill: The individuals are still accredited investors as retail?

Moor Milo: Yes.

Bill: Okay. That was the clarification I was looking for.

Moor Milo: For the most part, they are accredited. There are new vehicles that have been more and more leveraged in the last, we'll call it four or five years that allow for average consumers to also participate, which is a non-accredited investor.

Bill: And just let's make one more definition there. What is an accredited investor?

Moor Milo: An accredited investor is someone that has over $200,000 in income by themselves, over $300,000 in income with a spouse, or has a million dollars in assets outside of their residence. Okay? So outside of your direct home. So traditionally, retail investors in the private markets have only been accredited investors because of the vehicles that were generated by the investment firms to deliver those investment opportunities.

Bill: Yeah, that's good. We understand that. Just to kind of, you made a very interesting point around retail, which our end goal is actually to get to the average consumer, to get to anybody who is over 18 in America that wants to deploy their capital passively with as little as $100.

Moor Milo: So I'm making this designation because slowly but surely we are seeing more investment vehicles that allow a non-accredited investor to deploy their capital, which we're building a platform to be able to house all of those investment vehicles. So right now, most of the opportunity lies for the rich people, but we really want to open it up to everybody.

Bill: And that's happening on a macro level. That's a massive expansion of the capital pool. Is that a safe presumption?

Moor Milo: Oh, you're talking about 14% of the country maybe falls into that accredited category. So you're talking about the vast majority of Americans now being available as investors and use opportunities. It's a six X expansion is what you're saying.

Leveraging Data for Brand Building in Real Estate

Bill: Okay. All right. Thanks for that. So more I'll try to follow up on some, you were talking about operators and their brand building. Are you saying that operators are leveraging new tools and quantitative data to do more brand building? Is that how you were couching that in terms of the brand building concept?

Moor Milo: Yes. A lot of operators have had the great pleasure of experiencing is active and eager investors looking to deploy their capital into experienced operators. Now in the last two or three years, you probably have heard that that has changed. Sponsors are having a much more difficult time raising capital because of the scarcity issue from the last, call it five to seven years of deals not going so great.

Moor Milo: When it comes to creating optimizations around data associated with marketing and branding your business for investor relations, it's about creating systems that can consistently keep your content in front of people and track the outreach that is happening. Most operations in the real estate space, when it comes to investor relations, are kind of just, you know, I have a lead list, we picked up the phone once or twice, we sent out a couple emails, we have our newsletter. Nothing is tracked, nothing is significant from the form of consistent outreach up front. There's no brand building associated with creating a relationship with a stranger, because most of those operators are very used to selling off of their pro forma based off of certain logical facts. And what they usually miss is that retail investors, whether accredited or non-accredited, buy with their emotions and justify with logic.

Moor Milo: So in order for you to be able to actually build a relationship with somebody who's getting inundated from every direction, because now in the social media world that we live in, you're getting stimulus from everywhere. In order for you to break through that noise, you have to systematize your process associated with taking a stranger, building a relationship, and then turning them into an active partner that does business with you. So across the board, we're seeing that it's necessary.

Standardizing Deal Data for Better Transparency

Drew: That could be a great transition to what changes when deals are structured like data instead of stories. So when you move from relationship-driven narratives like you just talked about to standardized, truly comparable deal data, it changes on both sides. So when investors can finally compare deals apples to apples, what are the changes in underwriting, discipline, expectations, audience, capital pools? Elaborate on how true comparison, when you, instead of making a brand-based story, you actually have the data on the deal, right? How does it change the whole pitch, the reception, the process, the closing, the funding, everything?

Moor Milo: It's becoming table stakes. You need to have it, right? The data is becoming table stakes to you? Oh yeah. If you don't have good data that you can deliver to, especially the institutional guys who are the ones who care most about the data, because they have the ability to go out and do diligence on their own, and they have the ability to come back and renegotiate their deals based off of their diligence with that sponsor that's looking to receive capital. So especially for the institutional guys, if you're not leveraging the data that's out in the marketplace to create better pro formas that speak to the current market conditions and represent that deal in the way that fits the thought process of the sophisticated institutional professional investor that has access to the same data, if not more data, to be able to make those assumptions and deploy their capital appropriately, you're not going to be able to compete, number one.

Moor Milo: On the retail side, it's a little different. From the perspective of the retail investor, it's very much more important that you focus even more time on building relationships because the data, again, is table stakes. Because if you take 10 deals that are out in the market and compare the offering memorandums and you have one deal that doesn't have the same data as the other 10 deals, then you're probably going to take that deal and you're going to put it to the side, and you're going to read that from what you're looking at.

Drew: And really what it offers now or in your vision of how you're going to make it to where the capital pool is wide open, do you have templates you're expecting everybody to present their deal format in, or are the investors forcing the offering memorandums to standardize? How are you going to compare data if it's not normalized?

Moor Milo: So that's a great question and something that we have started working on from the perspective of building out tools for institutional investors to be able to segment the information and create efficiencies around their diligence process. But that is something that is not standardized, right? You're going to have data in different places formatted in different ways. And when you look at an offering memorandum in the marketplace, most of these offering memorandums will have all of those components and your job is to then as an investor, go and figure out who's the closest to honest. It's daunting. I've tried to do it as an individual because I love this space, right? We are in it professionally. I have passive capital involved in it as well. It is daunting. It's hard.

Moor Milo: Our goal at the end of the day, by having a centralized solution that we can sit as the middleman of sorts to balance the relationship between the investors and the general partners, is create standardization around reporting. And this is very future-focused. Today, for example, most deals are operating under what's called a regulation D offering. Regulation D offerings are exemptions from SEC securities law, which allow operators to be able to operate in a slightly more flexible manner as long as they're delivering investors that are qualified their opportunities. And we can dig in the differences between B and C and do all that sort of fun stuff.

Drew: But if you get into unaccredited investors, Reg D goes away, doesn't it?

Moor Milo: Well, Reg D 506 C will be accredited only, but if you go Reg D 506 B, you'll be allowed to introduce 35 non-accredited investors. But the differentiation between those two offerings is that with a 506 C, you can see it, it's a generally solicitable offering. With a 506 B, you do not have the ability to generally solicit that offering to the world, but you can offer it to your friends and family to invest if they're not qualified.

Moor Milo: But to take it a step further than that, the regulation D offerings don't have particular parameters around reporting or auditing, whereas in the new world that we live in and slowly are shifting to, there are two regulations that are seen and being used for real estate that are going out to the non-accredited investors. Regulation C, F, crowdfunding. Regulation A. Both of those regulations have certain requirements associated with reporting through EDGAR with the SEC. Once you start having a mass of those types of offerings that have certain requirements associated with auditing and reporting, now you can create certain standardization around how you can analyze that data just like how we analyze data on the stock market through all of the reports associated with an S1 security.

Moor Milo: But because we haven't built a marketplace with a sufficient enough amount of offerings that qualify underneath that regulation and then created that consolidated platform to bring them all into one place, we haven't been able to create that standardization. Now, our goal is to be able to create that, and I feel very confident that in the next five to seven years we will. Where we started, and kind of this came from the whole conversation around how do we get this thing to market and how do we start showing value to people? Our goal is to be able to centralize all the data in one place and provide you the three or four most important documents that every operator should have that you should be looking at, aka your PPM, your private placement memorandum, your offering memorandum, your subscription documents and then any other auxiliary documents associated with the particular offerings within, or more correctly, the particular assets within that specific offering.

Moor Milo: So slowly but surely, we're starting to build those systems where we at least we can coordinate and consolidate all that data in one place. The next step is to start creating standardization, which in my opinion will come with those more regulated offerings because of the requirements associated with the SEC.

Reducing Risk Through Enhanced Data Practices

Drew: Let's talk a little bit about risk. I mean, there's obviously an inherent reduction of risk around this increased transparency that we've been talking about, the use of all this great quantitative data. Do you see a gap between how risk is actually managed operationally compared to how it may be presented to investors?

Moor Milo: Oh yeah, there's a huge gap. And this is something that, you know, I lose sleep over consistently, but operators do not all work on the same standard. People make decisions and not all people make the same quality of decisions, let's say. So up until now, it's been very difficult to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. And that's because every PPM looks like a long contract and every offering memorandum looks like the best thing since sliced bread. So it's one of those things where now you're going to have to start creating standardization around how we keep track of these people that are receiving capital and deploying it into deals on behalf of investors. But up until now, you know, it's been incredibly hard to hold operators accountable.

Moor Milo: So from our perspective, what we do our best to do is only find people that have at least 25 million in assets under management that can prove to us and show us that they have prior exits or good transactions in their history, and then can go through the checks that we do to ensure that they are an upstanding citizen and someone who should be receiving capital or is capable of taking on the responsibility of receiving capital.

Drew: But that would be a massive value add more like from an individual's perspective, trying to play in this world, accredited or non-accredited, that would be a huge attractive feature for me. I'm not making a statement any other than my personal belief because I've tried to do this whole investing thing. And it's Terry. It's not easy. It's not easy.

Moor Milo: I'm very grateful to my CFO and my general counsel because without them, I would be very lost. And to be completely honest, I'm a marketing and sales guy. Like I, I fell into this because I watched my parents build a small portfolio, single family residential real estate that started paying them and they were doing great with it. But I saw the hell that they went through to have to deal with tenants and managing all that sort of fun stuff. So for me.

Moor Milo: We were like, okay, we're tech people, we're Fortune 500 guys, how do we build the stock market for real estate? And then we just kind of stumbled into where we are here. But what I'll tell you is the ability to be able to see who is good and who is not is very, very hard to master. And even with our legal support and our financial support and with my background and my business partner's background in finance and business consulting, it's been a challenge to build systems to properly vet these people. And we improve every single day, but that is still something that you're taking a certain amount of risk. Well, every investor is always. So, I mean, I have to assume just by putting capital at play, but Drew and I here on this podcast have conversations all the time about how data improves operations, all kinds of operations, but basically OPEX, like how can we reduce OPEX by leveraging data and where's the data come from, your digital infrastructure? So this conversation is fascinating to me because the data is actually capable of impact, genuinely impacting the cost of capital, which is a huge impact on OPEX, like, or even getting the deal funded from the start. Like, is it a go or no go? Beautiful piece of property, beautiful vision. I couldn't get it funded three years ago and now I can. And that's massive to me all because of the data.

Future Directions for Real Estate Investment Platforms

Drew: So let's talk about what needs to go differently going forward. Like, you know, again, control of data and clarity of operations are becoming prerequisites, as you said, for efficient capital access, but for the owners and operators listening out there, what signals do capital providers increasingly look for that didn't matter five years ago?

Moor Milo: What I would say, okay, so I'm going to shift the perspective a little bit. Okay. I think what sponsors and operators need to do to better position themselves to raise more capital moving forward is understand volume and consistency is what's going to actually separate you from the rest. To a certain extent, real estate deals are pretty straightforward. There's only so many variables. Of course, there's always going to be risk. This deal in Houston next to this deal in Houston for 500 units, likely they're pretty similar deals. The difference between the person that gets funded and the person that doesn't get funded is the relationships that they build and how many of them they have. And in order for an operator to be able to build relationships, they have to understand that it's a numbers game. And if you don't know how much, by when, how many touches, if you don't have any visibility or metrics associated with what it is that you're doing to actually communicate with people that you're expecting to open their wallet and give you money, you're dropping the ball. And most operators come to the table and say, okay, all I need in my life is I need 10 institutional guys that give me a million dollars on every deal that I do. It's like, okay, good luck finding them. How many thousands of people are you going to have to comb through to find 10 guys that every time that you have a deal, they're just going to blindly give you money? How many dinners and golf outings and, you know, voting trips can you do to find those 10 people?

Drew: Well, let's, let's boil this down a little further. If you had to give one piece of advice, what should a mid-market owner start doing now to avoid friction when they raise their next round or refinance their next round of capital?

Moor Milo: Build systems, build a CRM, have a repository that you can put your data into, build automations for outreach, where you have emails, SMSs, voicemail drops, an AI chat bot to help you schedule meetings, all going out consistently and ferociously outreach to the people that you're generating leads from. If someone is showing you interest, don't expect them to pick up the phone on the first phone call or the first text message and understand that they may have sent you information, but out of the a hundred percent of people, 97% of people are not ready for the next 24 to 36 months. If you're only expecting to close the deals that are coming in right now, you've got 3% of people. That's who's left. 3% of people are ready to give you money right now, right?

Bill: I also heard you say that they're thirsty for information about your successes, about your, I think you said good corporate citizenship, like all other, I heard you say some things I don't see in many PPMs and that is the track record.

Moor Milo: All the above. I, you know, look, I think sponsors need to start looking at raising capital, like a corporate sales and marketing engine, like they're building a system to sell a product.

Drew: Is that your vision for Reli? To enable them with that?

Moor Milo: Yes and no. I think the vision is to give them the foundation that they need to understand how to connect with strangers. And then through our platform, I hope to augment a lot of that functionality, right? I hope to really create a plug and play solution to bring them into the 21st century where they can manage all of their investment operations from a consolidated place while also having an audience of people that we've built that are looking for deals to deploy capital into.

Bill: Yeah, that was a nice clarification. Thank you. But this whole thing fascinates me. I mean, I, we can talk about it forever, but I, I think that this has been an awesome conversation. Thank you. And what do you have to add there? I'm sorry. I talked over you twice. I apologize for that.

Moor Milo: Yeah, no more. Go ahead. What were you saying?

Drew: Oh, you know what I'd say is, uh, I think operators in 2026 are feeling the pain of struggling to raise capital in this current market and are looking for ways to build systems that can support them. We've seen it time and time again with a lot of operators. They just don't know where to start. So I really think what's going to start happening is that real estate operators that have a hundred million, 200 million, 500 million in assets under management, but don't have a logo and don't have a website and don't have, you know, LinkedIn and don't have any other information anywhere. Cause there's a lot of those people. You'd be very surprised. We'll start building out brands and showing their faces and creating consistent outreach where they're delivering value to people that are interested in what they're doing through their SMS, their emails, their voicemails with actual educational content that can help passive investors like us learn what we need to learn to actually figure out who we want to give our money to and who has good assets to invest in. So I think we're going to start to see a lot of those people that have been behind closed doors and they haven't wanted to show their faces and they haven't wanted to tell you how they made their millions and how they built their systems. They will start to show their faces and they will start to show what a good track record looks like and start actively going out and putting out information about them. That's the next step. And that's what I would recommend any mid market operator in the space do. If you have wins or losses or stories to tell about your real estate investment journey and you're looking for investors, you need to consistently be posting on social, sending out emails, text messaging, uh, you know, doing webinars, doing podcasts, media, media, media, go show your face and make sure that when they click on your link, they have something pretty to look at.

Personal Insights and Career Advice from Moor Milo

Bill: Yeah, nice. All right, more before we wrap up, something we do with all of our guests is something we call the extra floor. And it's just a quick set of five questions, um, to help listeners get to know the human side of yourself. So just, you know, gut responses as short as you want it to be. It's the first thing that comes to your mind. Uh, here's question one. What is a book or a podcast that has shaped how you think?

Moor Milo: So I'll actually kind of mix those answers. Sure. In my business partner, Ross have now started four startups in the tech space. The first three failed. The first one was an automotive startup. We sold a bunch of cars, but we didn't make any money because we didn't know a lot of things. And after that deal fell apart, me and Ross looked at each other and we're like, Hey, how do we set ourselves apart? So what we had heard was that CEOs read 50 books a year on average. I don't know. There's that statistic out in the ether. So we looked at each other and said, okay, well, how do we read 50 books a year? So we said, okay, you know what? Let's start a podcast and let's read a book a week, every single week and every Sunday we'll do a podcast talking about the book. And that'll keep us accountable. And we ended up reading 160 books in a row, which was a life-changing experience. And interestingly enough, a book that has changed my life is The Five Love Languages.

Drew: Oh, I love that one. Interesting.

Moor Milo: Yes. They have one for sales too. They have one for kids.

Bill: Oh, I haven't read those two. There's different versions. Yeah. There's a love language for kids. Highly recommended for all the parents out there. Sorry to interrupt more, but it's on my top five list. It's really good. And, you know, it just gives you the insight of like, if you're an employer, if you're a partner, if you're a son, whatever, it doesn't matter, it gives you the ability to like tune in to what people in front of you actually need or ask the question of what do you actually need and then deliver it to them in the way that they want it. And that's, I think, a very, very powerful sentiment. So that's why that book comes to mind.

Drew: What's the best piece of career or life advice you've ever received?

Moor Milo: Can I curse on this podcast?

Bill: Hell yeah. No, it's up to you.

Moor Milo: Don't think about failure in the form of failure. I would, and just keep going, right? Like I have recently had a conversation with wonderful human being that I've been mentoring a little bit and he's been running his own business and he recently had to go and get a job and for the last, and mind you, he's still going to run his business, but he's a young guy. He just graduated from college. And for the last two weeks, he's just kind of felt off. And I asked him, Hey man, what's going on? He's like, Oh, well, you know, I had to take this little gig and this and that. I'm like, dude, I'm so proud of you. Congratulations. You're going to learn so much. Like that's so relevant to what you're doing. That's so exciting. He was kind of like, what do you mean? It kind of means I failed. Like.

Moor Milo: Anybody that's never tried to go do something would feel that way. But anybody that's tried to go do something and has had to come back with their tail between their legs and get slapped a little by reality ends up coming back stronger. So this is a good thing, right? So point being, take the hits on the chin and keep going, like persistent is all that matters.

Drew: Yeah, that's great. Adaptability, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Third question. What is one habit or practice that consistently makes you more effective?

Moor Milo: This is something that I think people should be more aware of, especially if you're in a position of leadership. Just because you think something is right doesn't mean that you should disqualify other people's feelings. So I think a good habit to have is to pause before reacting and provide the most charitable outlook on the response or the input that you're getting from what's in front of you.

Moor Milo: So here's an example. I made an offer to somebody to do some work and they got very defensive. In my head, I'm like, okay, well, I'm offering to give you money. And what I was offering was fair. And they felt like I wasn't present with them and was barking orders at them when I was making them an offer. Now, is that right or wrong? Who cares? Until I was willing to say, hey, did I upset you in any way? Is there something that I could have approached this more effectively?

Moor Milo: Until I was willing to take down my ego and say, hey, look, like, I don't know how you're feeling. I feel like I'm right. But that doesn't give me the justification to walk all over your feelings. How are you feeling? Why did that not land with you? Why was that not effective? That opened the floor for this person to then come back and say, hey, look, I'm actually really grateful for the opportunity, but the way that you said this made me feel less than. I was like, oh, snap. No, that wasn't my intention at all. That's not what I was saying.

Moor Milo: So the practice of pausing and not allowing my righteousness to justify why someone should feel bad about something and just having that perspective, incredibly good habit of. Man, and it's great because I think that used to be more common and just expected. But in today's, what have you done for me lately? Social networking driven mentality of let me just get my words out. It's just not that common.

Drew: That's good. Especially around election season. We're not going to go there. Next question is, are you an early bird or a night owl?

Moor Milo: I'm a little bit of both, weirdly enough. Really? But more of an early bird these days. So I'm like a 530 to 7am gym guy, somewhere in there is usually where I'm in the gym. That hasn't been a normal thing forever. I'd say maybe the last five years that's been part of my existence. But I'm also like a partier that likes to go dance and I like rave music and I like to, you know, hang out with my friends and do all sorts of fun things out at night.

Moor Milo: So although that has been much less of my life story in the last five years, especially with Relly in the last three years, I would say I'm a little bit of both. But I guess now I'm leaning more towards the early bird.

Drew: Yeah, can shift back and forth. That's right. All right. Final question here, more when you're not working, what do you love to do that recharges you?

Moor Milo: Ski. Skiing has been something in the last two years that I've picked up that is like one of my favorite things to do. And it reminds me a lot of driving, which is interesting because I am a huge car guy and driving has always been my happy place. But in the last two or three years, I got back into skiing since I was a child. I skied a little bit when I was a kid, but I wasn't very good.

Moor Milo: And what I realized is that there are only few activities out there that make you truly present in the moment, the way that being on a mountain and like in the moment that you could fall and eat it and fly a hundred feet down the side of a slope makes you present. And that's powerful. It's every time I go ski, I don't think about work for the entire time that I'm skiing, which is kind of a cool experience.

Drew: Yeah. Maybe even the point sometimes.

Moor Milo: It's unfortunate because the West Coast has not gotten any snow in the last couple of months here. So I've been kind of fiending to go out there and get on some snow, but I saw this morning that more of the Keystone, I think, and Breck finally have all their lifts open as of today. So the snow has been very late in Colorado too, but it's fine.

Drew: Yes, I was late. It was, well, it was 65 degrees in Denver on Christmas day. It was, it was a really late season. So it means spring is going to be awesome here.

Moor Milo: That's amazing. I'm all for it. I'm on your side, Bill. Well, you come out here. Let me know. We'll bake some bread.

Drew: I will. That sounds like a plan. I was actually just in Utah. I was at Park City. Really lucky. There was no snow. And the day before we showed up, there was two and a half feet, which was like, oh, thank goodness.

Drew: We will, we'll put these in the show notes too. But for those not looking at the show notes, how can listeners contact you, should they wish?

Moor Milo: Lots of ways. We are very active on all the social platforms at Invest with Relly. So Invest with, and then Relly, R-E-L-L-I. Our website, if you want to check out our platform, create a user account and check out some of the deals is Relly.co. So R-E-L-L-I.co. And then personally, I am the most active on LinkedIn. So if you just look up my first name, M-O-R, and my last name, M-I-L-L-O, the best place to hit me up is on LinkedIn. And then email is always a good place. So my first name, M-O-R-R-E-L-L-I.co. Yeah. Thanks everybody.