What Modern Office Tenants Actually Want From Their Buildings

Drew Hall: Welcome back to the Peak Property Performance Podcast. I am your co-host Drew Hall, as always, and with me today, obviously co-host Bill Douglas. Welcome, Bill.

Bill Douglas: Glad to be here and wearing the same color shirt today, I might add. Not by, not by choice, just by chance.

Drew Hall: Well, today's theme is going to be what modern office tenants actually want, but that owners often overlook. But before we introduce our guests, let's just remind our listeners again, like we always do here at the top, to like, subscribe, share, hit that bell so you're notified when the new episodes drop, which generally it tends to be about once a week. But all of this is for the purpose of spreading the word on the Peak Property Performance movement. And ideally, this is where our goal is to change an industry. Like, we truly want these ideas, these concepts, these real-world stories, these interviews to influence what's really happening in the real world. That's what we're talking about. So if you think that you would provide value as a guest here and you're listening, let us know. Or if you know someone who would, let us know.

Drew Hall: Let them know to contact us. We welcome commercial real estate thought leaders from all stages of ownership and operation. Just reach out to us via Peak Property Performance Podcast is a great way to do it. All of our information is there, or you can just find us OpticWise there on LinkedIn as well. So with all that, Bill, where do we go from here?

Bill Douglas: Well, normally I read an introduction for the guest. Today's guest is Audra Cunningham, but I know she's going to do it herself and do a much better job. So I'm going to hand it off and introduce everybody to Audra Cunningham and say, welcome to Peak Property Performance. Tell us your background and do your own intro, please.

Drew Hall: Nice.

Audra Cunningham: Greetings. And thank you, gentlemen. Sure. I have had a non-traditional route to get to tenant rep brokerage. Started and did 23 years in So I was the tenant for 23 years before I got into commercial real estate and started representing them, which I will say kind of distinguishes me a little bit from other brokers just because I understand corporate, I understand the branding and all of that. But anyhow, I got into the business in 2008, which probably if I thought about it and knew what was going to happen, wasn't the best time, but it ended up being the best time because you learn how to do things the right way. And my first transaction, I don't care what side of the aisle you're on, my first transaction during a very difficult time was President Obama's campaign headquarters in Atlanta. So when he won, and in that time you were trying to find any kind of symbolism to make you think you were going to be successful.

Audra Cunningham: So when he won, I just knew that that was what was going to happen. But I have a national practice. I own my own firm, Acre Consultants, national practice. I'm headquartered in Atlanta and an office in Washington, D.C., and work across the country and love what I do and love commercial real estate. And I'm so excited to be here today.

Bill Douglas: And so you're coming to us from Atlanta, right?

Audra Cunningham: I am.

Bill Douglas: I am. I always like to know that.

Audra Cunningham: Yes. And I'm in the beautiful Fourth Development. It's a newer development here in Atlanta off of the BeltLine across from Ponce City Market, which most people,

Bill Douglas: Oh, I love the BeltLine. It is such a neat thing. Yeah.

Audra Cunningham: It is like right there. So whenever anybody comes to Atlanta, when you go to Ponce City Market, please make sure you come across the street. There's a beautiful hotel, beautiful office building, which I'm sitting in.

Bill Douglas: I had dinner there, I don't know, 6 weeks ago. I didn't know you were there. Otherwise, I'd have hollered. Yes.

Audra Cunningham: Please do. Please do next time. My treat.

Bill Douglas: All right.

Drew Hall: All right.

Audra Cunningham: That's cool.

Drew Hall: All right. For the start here, let's talk about post-pandemic tenant expectations. Like you're consistently interacting with tenants and we know, and we've talked about it in so many circles since then that so much has changed as a result of the pandemic itself. So as you are consistently interacting with those tenants, what, what are you hearing and seeing them asking for today that they just were not asking for prior to that 2020?

Audra Cunningham: So, and it's not so much that they weren't asking for it, but how they're asking for it and how they're really becoming must-haves. So now part of the conversation. It's no longer just the CEO and the real estate director. You have the CFO at the table, you have the CHRO at the table. So you have a bunch of competing interests that are looking at their real estate to support their business, not so much as brick and mortar anymore. That's to me the biggest change. They're being very thoughtful and deliberate about what the immediate area offers, what amenities do, do the buildings offer them, what kind of technology do they have when it comes to being able to... because a lot of them are doing open spaces now. For instance, just on Monday, I went to the ribbon cutting for Ernst Young, EY's brand new Atlanta office space.

Audra Cunningham: Absolutely gorgeous there in 1020 Spring Street. It's a relatively new delivery. It delivered last year, but it's like a hotel. Building has amenities like a hotel. Their 8th floor tenant amenity floor, which turns into a restaurant in the evening. They just were real thoughtful in the design of it. And they've been in the office for 6 weeks. They're already seeing an increase of foot traffic from, from their employees that are coming to work that weren't wanting to.

Audra Cunningham: Now they, they were in a much different area, but literally the design of their space, the convenience of their space and the location of their space has people coming to work and they're not having to tell them to.

Drew Hall: Wow. That's cool. Yeah. That's, that's ingenious.

Bill Douglas: Like, I bet it saves them a lot of money and time because they're clients would probably want to come to the office to meet with them instead of them having to travel to the client's office.

Audra Cunningham: Exactly. Exactly. And they've got quite an office to show off. They do.

Drew Hall: That's cool.

Audra Cunningham: Yeah.

Drew Hall: Yeah. That's pretty cool. I mean, it, it kind of gives some teeth to that whole like work-life balance thing when, when part of quote unquote the office is actually open to public, like the, on the restaurant case. It's pretty clever. That sounds nice.

Audra Cunningham: It might, pardon me, but it might surprise you to know, I mean, there are no corner offices. The corner offices are corner conference rooms where people can sit and they can collaborate with 2 desks in them. I mean, all the way up to the top, people are sitting in... you can reserve an office if you'd like an office, but it is not what it used to be. It's very modernized and technology was really, really important to them.

Drew Hall: I mean, that's such a perfect example of adaptation, you know, whether it's anticipating tenants' requirements or listening to actual tenants' requirements, but whatever, either way, responding to it. And it, like you're saying, it's actually making a difference. So what about, I don't know if I'd say the other end of the spectrum, but are there cases where there's still like ownership might think that tenants care about something, but it's actually not that important to tenants. Does that still exist?

Audra Cunningham: It does. And I think more so for those that might not want to make the investment that needs to be made in order for you to deliver a product that tenants want. Now, they're... I mean, tenants, they're going to quality. I mean, they will take less space in order to have a more quality building that again provides amenities, it provides outdoor workspace for their employees to work when it's nice outside with good Wi-Fi and all the things that come... coffee bar, juice bar. They want their employees to within a one-block radius to be able to get everything that they want. So for those that might have a Class B or a little older property, it is time for you to make some investments because the tenants are just, I mean, they're just leaving. They're leaving and going to much nicer properties.

Bill Douglas: We have a client that has, we say lit up with wifi, 10, 15 acres outside because there's so much common area and it's lawn and treed and they want people to just be able to go Anywhere.

Audra Cunningham: And it's, they want it fluid.

Bill Douglas: Exactly. It's a beautiful facility, but they, they can't. Oh my goodness. 9 months of the year they can be outside and still be on their corporate network.

Audra Cunningham: I'm really excited about one of my clients that has a campus in Raleigh, North Carolina. And just this year they have decided that they were gonna consolidate. They have 4 buildings. They're gonna consolidate their employees into 2 buildings, lease out the other 2 buildings, and rebrand the, the actual campus. And they have a, over 100 acres. So that's exactly what we're talking about and what I'm talking about to them is how important it is for one, the rebranding. So everybody's not sitting up under your name, but how do you get people to walk around this campus with their iPad, with their laptop and never lose service and be able to continue to work? Oh, people came over here. They're too loud.

Audra Cunningham: I'm gonna go over near the lake right now. So we're talking about that right now. And it's an exciting opportunity.

Drew Hall: I think that is amazing. I mean, It's a personal experience of mine, but I know it's not just something that I experience. It, it, it almost depends on what you happen to be working on at the time, what type of environment works best for you to be in. You know, some, obviously sometimes you need quiet and concentration and sometimes energy is what draws energy out of you depending on what you're trying to quote unquote solve or conversations you need to make, meetings, et cetera. So that's really cool. I mean, to have that consistent connectivity to be able to, so that that's not a barrier.

Audra Cunningham: That's right. That's right. Yeah, it's exciting.

Drew Hall: So Audrey, you alluded to it that like sometimes tenants are either willing to, or maybe they're looking for less space in order to get the right space. space. What about like pricing? Are, are tenants willing to pay more for the right environment or is price still like a, one of the biggest deciding factors for tenants?

Audra Cunningham: They are willing to pay more because at the end of the day, they don't wanna mandate, they don't wanna have to mandate their employees come back to work, but they do understand the importance from a culture perspective and a productivity perspective. They do understand how important, how important it is for them to have their employees in the office. So they are willing to pay more. They might be contracting a little bit. They might give up some space in order to do And become more efficient. Again, not having all your partners within an office and everybody's hoteling or however they want to set it up. But at the end of the day, price is not leading the discussion. Price is not what's making them decide what they want to tour.

Audra Cunningham: They really want to understand what's in the neighborhood. What does the building have to offer? They even want to understand who is the property manager, who's the asset manager. They want to know the people and the kind of people and what's important to them and who they're leasing from and who they're investing into. And what kind of relationship that they're gonna have with them. So, I mean, I've been on tours where, you know, brokers are different. Some of them are personable and some of them not so much. And to the point where when they're not personable and they're not, they're not giving them a feeling of home and like, this is where we really want you to be. They don't even, I don't care how beautiful the building is.

Audra Cunningham: They just don't wanna even talk about it anymore. They wanna, they want to feel like when we do land, we're gonna be treated well and we're going to enjoy our 10-year relationship. 'Cause that's usually about what it is.

Drew Hall: Yeah. That makes total sense.

Bill Douglas: Audrey, you said price isn't leading it. So I'm going to speak from the owner's side, because we have a lot of office clients that are office owners that are clients of ours. And I hear from almost every one of them that the tenants are spending more per foot, but they're renting less space. So they're actually spending less bottom line than they did before, but that's because their whole staff isn't there all 5 days. They have somewhere between 3 and 4 days where their staff is there and they're figuring out how to flex it. So they are spending more per foot to get the right space, but the foot... so if a 250,000 square foot office building used to have 12 tenants. Now it has 15, but it's full and there's been a lot of TI work done. Do you see that trend?

Audra Cunningham: Absolutely. And that's across the board. I mean, that's across the country. And I really work in major cities, but in every major city, I, again, they are focusing on what features does the building offer? What amenities? Where can my employee work if they're not in the office, but they want to come to the office? Are there places where they can go and have meetings to get them outside of the office, to get them in a different environment where they can be a little bit more creative? They want to know, is there some outdoor... are there outdoor amenities? This BeltLine, I mean, everybody's heard about it. It's a game changer in the city. It is absolutely a game changer. I live on the BeltLine, maybe a 15-minute bike ride to my office. Now I get up and I dress like this every day, so I'm not riding my bike.

Audra Cunningham: But my daughter who works with me, she does ride her bike. She rides her bike here. I've read one statistic when Intuit, who is the largest tenant in this development, at one time, 30-some, 37, maybe 37% of their workforce was either on the Beltline or on foot or riding their bike, but they are not driving to work, which is good because our parking lot's not that big.

Bill Douglas: Yeah. Yeah. There's not much parking around there. So we're increasingly hearing the word hospitality used to describe office properties. So what does hospitality actually mean in an office environment?

Audra Cunningham: I mean, it means anything from when you walk in, like you do at the One Hotel, you have that scent that you just can never forget and you absolutely fall in love with. I actually went and bought it for my home. I just love it so much. To having a coffee bar, having... and maybe even it's just a pop-up coffee bar. It might not be an actual coffee shop, but just a pop-up coffee bar. It's having library kind of rooms for you to go in and sit down and meet in, and there are books and it just feels warm and fuzzy and you feel like you're at home. Having a concierge to be able to help you to plan things. It's a large game, but it just feels like you're either walking in someone's home or you're walking into a hotel.

Audra Cunningham: It doesn't look like a sterile office building anymore.

Bill Douglas: It sounds wonderful. I know we've been in them, but it's something to aspire to. Well, I'm going to take the counter approach for a second. We've talked about what works and what is working and what's popular and successful right now, but I'm going to ask you to, where have you seen owners spend significant amounts of money on amenities without understanding what tenants actually wanted. Where have you seen the counter to this is a huge success to help our audience avoid some of that?

Audra Cunningham: Well, hmm, I don't know that I have a specific example around that, but I will go back to 1020 Spring Street for a moment here in Atlanta. Although they made a significant investment in amenities in that 8th floor amenity space, they had planned to have a restaurant there. And I don't know if they really thought through how sometimes the tenants want the amenity space after hours. also. So there was a lot of discussion around between the tenant and the owner. There was a lot of discussion around how do you just take away our 8th floor amenity space at 5 o'clock because this fancy restaurant opens up. They came to a compromise, but I think that might be one example of where I'm not sure they fully thought through how they were going to all coexist in the same building with different objectives.

Bill Douglas: Well, we tend to think of amenities as something you can see, you know, like a fitness center, a conference room, and a coffee shop. But aren't some of the best tenant experiences actually invisible? Like pest amenities that affect and impact tenant experience, aren't they invisible?

Audra Cunningham: Yeah, of course. I mean, your technology, which you really can't see, but you use it and it helps you be more efficient during the day. All of those things are just as important to tenants as the beautiful fitness center that they might have in the building. So being real thoughtful and mindful around what that means. Again, having consistency throughout the building, having nice, safe, bike racks for those of those that can actually bike to work, having showers for folks to, to be able to shower when they have either walked or decided to bike to work. Or, I mean, maybe you just have someplace else you want to go after work. So having those kinds of amenities are important to tenants today.

Drew Hall: Okay. So, Audra, let's shift to like where tenants intersect with the actual digital infrastructure and that connectivity that we just kind of touched on there for a second. How is that these days? Is great connectivity something that tenants actually ask about, or is it something that they just assume will work in 2026?

Audra Cunningham: They, they ask about that. They ask about the HVAC. They want to understand, you know, are there going to be hot zones? Are there going to be dead zones within the building? Are there going to be hot zones or dead zones within our space? So they are asking about all of the infrastructure as they narrow down from an aesthetic perspective and a location perspective. That can be the difference between a yes or a no, how thoughtful you were with that infrastructure.

Drew Hall: That's cool. That's actually very cool because I feel like that's an example that we talk through all the time. You know, a conference room on the west side, pretty far up a high-rise or a mid-rise or something like that, and how different that is if it's west-facing, you know, those kinds of things. It's pretty, it's nice to know that tenants are actually thinking through that in advance versus coming upon it, you know, a few months into or a few days into the lease.

Audra Cunningham: And I of course don't build out the space, but as we're walking through and we're touring, those are conversations that we're having. Where's the sun coming up? Where's the side? What side is the sun coming down? And how are we going to manage that? And Do we want people there? Do we want conference rooms there?

Drew Hall: Yeah, exactly. The case that I was thinking through is more like not TI types of conference rooms, but shared conference room space in those types of buildings where we've seen those kind of often proactive types of decisions being made. But it's really good to hear that tenants are, like I said, tenants are thinking through that before it comes to pass.

Audra Cunningham: You have some buildings that are taking their top floors and making them into amenity spaces because they are skyscrapers and they just have incredible views. which I think is a game changer. I mean, before they used to want to lease it to the highest bidder, but I think it's a game changer and it allows all the tenants in the building to be able to enjoy the views and the amenities that a top floor, if you've got a 40-story or a 50-story building, would give you.

Drew Hall: Yeah. Well, so as work has become more mobile, and I don't mean outside of the formal office, but just even transitioning physically within the office spaces in the campus, how important would you say it is for that consistent digital experience throughout the property. You definitely touched on it, but, you know, not just their suite, conference areas, amenity space, the transition spaces, those outdoor areas that we talked about. Are you seeing more and more people, again, proactively think about that and ask about that versus stumbling upon it and being surprised, positively surprised about it?

Audra Cunningham: My experience has been it's regional, you know, down here in the Sunbelt, they... everybody's interested in it. We get a lot more nicer days to be outside than you do if you're up in Chicago or New York. So when you This is, this is a girl from Connecticut and I moved here for that very reason. But when you have people, when you have developments that include lakes and walking trails and Adirondack chairs sitting out there, I mean, you want people to be able to walk around that lake again and continue to work, continue to be able to use their telephone or, or whatever. So it really just depends on the development itself and the outdoor creativity that they have, the owners are creating. But it is, if you're going to create, it, have it where people can continue to work and enjoy it, no matter whether they're on the 40th floor or whether they're sitting on the other side of the lake in a park bench. You def... that continuity is extremely important.

Drew Hall: I absolutely love it. I love it. I mean, and I will tell you from firsthand experience, oftentimes I will place memories about having talked about something or worked through a solution with someone else on something based on where I was at the time. Be like, oh my gosh, I remember I was mobile at that point. I was quote unquote in the office, but not really in the office, you know? And maybe it was on campus and maybe it was completely off campus, but it's especially in those on-campus things like we're talking about here, having the ability to completely stay truly, truly mobile to move through those spaces is, I would, I mean, I don't know, maybe not to overstate it and say critical, but once you experience it, it begins to feel critical. Like it really does make a difference.

Audra Cunningham: And, you know, I have a small business and AI and automation has been my top priority when I started my firm. So being outside with my employees, walking with my employees, my daughter who works for me, we actually do walks and she asks me questions. Just random questions about anything. And I answer them for her. And I don't know what she's doing, something like this. She's going to create it into some kind of podcast or something. I don't know. But just having that ability to do that makes the investment that I've made to be over here on the BeltLine in Old Fourth Ward, it makes it so worth it.

Audra Cunningham: I mean, we just walk out the back door, we start walking, she starts talking, and I start answering the questions, and then we go back to work. But it's just, it's a great experience, and it's building great memories. memories. And I do it with my other employees also. I mean, especially if you have to have a challenging conversation and it might just be something that they're going through. I'm that kind of leader. I just, I care about people. And so, just having a place to go outside, sit down where it's comfortable and it's, it's not, work is not part of the conversation and we can just have a real personal conversation.

Audra Cunningham: Those are the things that matter to me as a CEO. And it matters to some other CEOs that I work with, some not so much. I mean, it just depends on your business and what you do and how you Right.

Drew Hall: Yeah. Well, okay. So on that digital infrastructure and the connectivity piece here still, are tenants looking for like low to no friction types of builds? Like, do they want to go about it on their own or are they looking to the building to help facilitate and make that frictionless as possible? And honestly, like kind of maybe on a shorter timeframe sometimes.

Audra Cunningham: Absolutely. They're looking to ownership to make those investments, to make it easier for them, quicker for them to get the installation done and it being reliable. Absolutely. They're looking for our ownership to make that type of investment.

Drew Hall: Yeah. So if that friction does exist, does it impact a tenant's decision to move in or build out the timeframe? How does... when friction is introduced, how does that impact a tenant's decision?

Audra Cunningham: I mean, I would say that it just really depends on the tenant, but hopefully they have realized all this before the lease is signed and they understand what they're working with. But it really would depend on the tenant and how important that is to them. Some tenants, the amenities is the most important. piece, honestly. You have nonprofits, you have folks that, I mean, they just want their folks to be happy. The IT part of it, the infrastructure piece of it is really not that important. So as their representative, it's just my job to figure out what are their top priorities and then make sure that I find and match them up with places that meet that.

Drew Hall: Yeah. Okay.

Bill Douglas: Well, can we shift to the macro level for a minute, Audrey?

Audra Cunningham: Sure.

Bill Douglas: Yeah. You know, post-pandemic, we heard the sky is falling, the office market's going to be replaced, blah, blah, blah. We actually believed it was just being resorted and not replaced. So if you, I want your opinion on this. If you ignore the headlines and just look at what your clients are actually doing in the office space, what's really happening with the market, what shifts are going on, what trends, I don't mean like the amenity trends we just talked about, what is going on in the markets you serve that you see your clients doing?

Audra Cunningham: So it's funny because whenever I tell people what I do, they just gasp and it's like a clutch the pearls moment. It's like, oh my gosh, how's the market? I mean, it's fine. It is. And what we talked about it earlier, I mean, leasing is a talent decision. decision now. They're, they're not getting as much space, but people's leases are still expiring. I do have quite a few people, which pre-pandemic was not so much, that are really looking to buy, even if they buy and become a landlord and lease half of the building. So there's a little bit more of that conversation going on.

Audra Cunningham: But,

Bill Douglas: Even with higher interest rates, that conversation's still going on?

Audra Cunningham: We're kind of trying to work through that. Yeah, but because the leasing rates are getting so high, I mean, they're... yeah, and they're trying to, to figure out how to offset that. So it's a, it's a different conversation. I, again, Talent is driving the decision. How do we get people back to work? How do we get them to want to come back to work? Some people are doing 5 years. Some people are like, I'm not going to do 10 years. I don't know what the next 10 years looks like. So let's do 5 years with an option to renew.

Audra Cunningham: And that makes sense too for some time. But then you have others like large companies like EY who just, they're going all in. They just went all in and paid a pretty price to build out their space and they'll be there for a while. So there's, I don't really want to call it uncertainty. I just think that everybody's being more thoughtful in their leasing decisions and they're doing what's right for them in the moment, what's right for their employees in the moment, and they'll figure it out 5 years from now if they decide they just want to do 5 years. It's not that... it's not where, again, it's not a chase for brick and mortar anymore. And, you know, I think I need 30,000 square feet. I want to be in this submarket and you give them the best brick and mortar out there.

Audra Cunningham: It's just, it's just a more thoughtful decision, at least with the folks Well, what types of older assets can realistically compete right now? I think if they, I think location is important. Efficiency is going to be real important. Investments in technology will be important and how you market the property will be important. Is there some historical value there? You know, it's tough. It's tough, especially if it's not Class A. If it's not Class A, there's a lot of renovations going on in Washington, DC, much older buildings. They are doing some beautiful work as they go through and renovate them, but it's still the same shell. It's still outside.

Audra Cunningham: It looks the same. It's still in the same location.

Bill Douglas: The same small windows.

Audra Cunningham: Yes, exactly. Exactly. And the height restrictions and all the things that come with, but they're just, they're beautifully appointed. But the, and they've gotten some amenities which they did not have before. But again, the landlord had to make a decision.

Bill Douglas: Ownership had to make a decision to make that If you owned an office building today, like it was your building, where would you put the next dollar and where would you not spend it?

Audra Cunningham: Again, it would be beautiful. I would definitely make improvements for it to be aesthetically pleasing. I would absolutely focus on technology and make sure that I had the latest and greatest technology and whatever. I'm trying to think of what is like the newest, hottest thing that I could install in a building. But I think all of those things are important if I owned a building right now, because those are the buildings that are 100% So where would you not spend it?

Bill Douglas: Where do you see owners making mistakes? Might be the wrong word, but overspending things that are not gonna have a return. Could we tell the audience what you see isn't worth it from an investment standpoint?

Audra Cunningham: I mean, I think rooftops, I just think it just really depends on where, what part of the country you're in, because it gets really, really hot in Atlanta and they spend a lot of money on these rooftops. And if you don't have an indoor-outdoor kind of rooftop space, that would probably be a challenge for you. I'm trying to think what not to invest in. invest in. I think spec suites are doing well. I think that investing in speccing out suites when you have an empty building, especially when you're just starting to lease up, is a good investment. But you're asking me what's not. I don't, I have to think about that.

Audra Cunningham: All right. You stumped me. You stumped me. You got me there.

Bill Douglas: That was not the attempt.

Drew Hall: So, Audrey, Audrey, you know, one thing that comes to my mind just because I've seen it in different markets is like parking structures, the decision to build parking structures of certain height, width, depth, based on building size and those types of things. So it's so interesting to me how differently those are tackled even within the same, you know, large markets, common markets, different builders do it different ways. So I don't know if that's something you've seen where, have you ever been involved in something where you're like, oh, what, that's an interesting choice on, is there way too much parking or there's just way too little parking?

Audra Cunningham: You know, that's a great point. And I don't think I've ever seen way too little parking, but what I have seen tenants respond to is well-lit parking garages where it just appears to feel safe. When they have the dark, don't have a lot of room to move around, that there's going to be some discussion around the parking. But I would absolutely agree with you. I don't know that I see them building too much, but they definitely, again, and I'm going to just tout the Fourth, our parking garage is like daytime at night. It's just so well lit and just the way that it was laid out. There's not enough of it again, but it's very well... it was thoughtfully done on how they lit it and from security reasons.

Drew Hall: Yeah. Nice. Okay, well, let's do the ultimate and final pivot. And we'll go from... I mean, everything we talked about, obviously, so far is shop. We're talking shop, we're talking work. Let's pivot to you as our guest here and give some... give our listeners and viewers a sense of you personally. So this is the section of the podcast that we call the Extra Floor, just inspired by commercial real estate itself. But just a quick set of questions, 3 questions we'll ask you gut-level answer.

Drew Hall: You know, it's not really a conversation, just what comes to mind first as you, as you hear these questions fired at you. Number 1, what is a great piece of career or life advice that you've received?

Audra Cunningham: I think to be bold, to just be bold and to just be authentically yourself. I'm a woman, I'm a woman of color in commercial real estate, and this I got from a white man actually, but he just had seen so many people that look like me that have kind of cycled in and out of the industry trying to be something else, trying to succeed in a way that they didn't really understand. So I would just say be bold and be authentic. And you have to be both because the boldness can be taken one way, but you have to be authentically yourself.

Drew Hall: Good.

Audra Cunningham: I am a big supporter of women and people of color in this industry. If you did any research about me, you know, there's I just, I do a lot of mentoring. I have a lot of people that reach out to me on LinkedIn and all they want is a 30-minute call because sometimes it can be very, it can be real isolating when you're the only one in the room and you just, you just don't know how to, how to move forward. So, I try to, my part-time job, as my daughter tells me, is to mentor the next generation to make sure we keep getting people in the industry, but also keep women in the industry and not only keep them in the industry, help them be wildly successful.

Drew Hall: No, that's great, Audra. That's great.

Bill Douglas: That's awesome. Yeah. What's one habit or practice that consistently makes you more effective in your pursuit of your passion as stated?

Audra Cunningham: My one habit is I smile all the time. I am a very happy person. I just, I love people. I love life and I greet people with a smile. I leave them with a smile and it makes you a little bit more memorable because I'll have people tell me all the time, they cannot remember my name, but I remember your face because you were always smiling. So just be happy, be pleasant. Be pleasant, be kind to people, and it goes such a long way. And I, and I say all people, from the security guards at the front desk to the young lady that comes in and cleans the restroom when I'm there, to the, to the head of industrious real estate.

Audra Cunningham: I don't care. Just be kind.

Drew Hall: All right, Audra, final question here. These days, are you an early bird or a night owl? And has that changed?

Audra Cunningham: I'm both. I am both. And how it changes, I'm exhausted. I'm naturally an early person, but I sit on several boards, so I have meetings throughout the day, and then the work has to get done. So now I'm up all night doing the work. I just celebrated a birthday on Tuesday, so I do leave for the Amalfi Coast on Saturday. And I promise you, my husband's like, okay, so what itinerary do we... we have 2 things that we're going to do, and the rest of it we're going to figure out because I might just sleep on the beach all day. But it's worth it.

Audra Cunningham: I love what I do. I love what I'm building and the culture that I'm building here. So I'm down for all the early mornings and late nights.

Drew Hall: Gotcha. Yeah.

Bill Douglas: Audra, this time last year, my wife and I went to the Amalfi Coast and it was wonderful. It's a great time to be there. You'll be after the crowd. You just, you'll fall in love with the place. There's plenty of, the beaches are rocks, but there's plenty of places to just take a nap and listen to the ocean.

Audra Cunningham: That's what I heard. And it is my first time. So I am so looking forward to it.

Bill Douglas: It's, yeah, it was, it was wonderful. So Audra, how can our listeners contact you? We will put this in the show notes. Every episode has its own webpage. It'll there, but for the listeners only, how could they reach you?

Audra Cunningham: Well, one, I would ask them to follow me and my company on LinkedIn. I'm really active on LinkedIn and I like to say I give good content, but you can email me at audra@acre-inc.com. And for those of you that just want another little small fact about me, Audra, Audrey is usually the name. Audra, anybody that ever watched Big Valley, Linda Evans was Audra Barkley. And yes, that's where my name came from. Um, show called Big Valley. I know I'm dating myself, but a show called Big Valley, that's where my name came from.

Bill Douglas: Well, thank you, Big Valley Audra. It's been a pleasure.

Audra Cunningham: And people actually do call me Big Valley. It is so funny. They do.

Bill Douglas: All right. I might use that again. Thank you for your time, for your stories, and thank you to the listeners for hanging in there. As Drew said at the top of the hour, be sure and like, follow, subscribe, uh, click that bell button so you know about new episodes. like this one and share this with your friends, because we want to make the industry better by sharing these experiences. We'll see you on the next episode of Peak Property Performance. Thank you, everyone.