Why Curiosity and Communication Matter Most as Real Estate Adopts New Tech

Introduction to Danielle Sprouls and Episode Overview

Drew: Hey, welcome back to the Peak Property Performance Podcast. It's me, your host, Drew Hall, along with co-host Bill Douglas. Bill, welcome.

Bill: Hey, glad to be back. Today we have Danielle Sprouls, a commercial real estate attorney turned executive coach, author, and speaker. Danielle is a former litigation attorney turned commercial real estate insider who spent more than two decades in the title insurance industry at the heart of billions in transactions in relationship to the power of commercial real estate. She's now the founder of Unscripted Pivots and the author of WTF, which made me smile, right? Women that Flourish, Home for Healthy Professionals Turn Their Curveballs into Catalysts.

Drew: So in today's episode, we'll talk about how AI and automation are reshaping the real estate world and how bold leaders can master the human side of performance, keeping their teams focused, flexible, and fearless when everything else around them is evolving. So Danielle, welcome to the show. Glad to have you.

Danielle Sprouls: Thank you. So glad to be here. We finally landed this plane, truth be told. I missed our first episode, guys. I had misjudged the time, but here we are. Thank you for your perseverance and landing this episode and conversation with me. So by way of background, I want to be clear. Yes, I went to law school. I graduated. I passed the bar in the first time. Yay. And I practiced for a bit. I never practiced in commercial real estate though. What I was doing was I was really a glorified research assistant and prepared these senior partners for trial. So I was really astute at doing all the research and writing the briefs and things like that. And, you know, doing motions and depositions. So it was in litigation.

Danielle Sprouls: And then take the hiatus to be a full-time mom to four. When I reemerged in 2001, when my youngest one was about maybe coming up on two, I was recruited by an attorney that had a commercial real estate title insurance firm. And so when he offered me a job in the casual conversation at a party where I was saying, I need to get back to the business world, this lawyer said, I'll hire you. And I'm like, good. A lawyer's hiring me. I'm going to go back to practicing law. And lo and behold, what I did was I ended up pivoting into insurance, which I thought would be a brief stint, like, okay, let me just get my feet wet. Let me get back into a business clothes, you know, ditch the yogurt, the sweatshirts would spit up on them and whatnot. And I ended up loving it.

Danielle Sprouls: I fell into the commercial real estate world then and was shortly thereafter recruited to New York within six months. And then it just took off. And so for that reason, I have stayed in an industry that I have known to grow in love. And today I still serve this community. But what it looks like is in executive coaching and speaking opportunities, putting out my framework, starting with the WTF and WTF as a framework, just like OpticWise has a framework, you know, right before this, we talked about this for a second because you have that five point touch system, all your C's, clarify, connect, collect, coordinate, control. And what I put forth is also five. And it's an acronym for PIVOT, P-I-V-O-T, pause, identify, vet, outreach, test, you know, so we're very systematic in what we're offering the commercial real estate community. And I'm just I'm looking forward to this conversation.

AI and Automation: Transforming Real Estate Management

Drew: Fantastic. Well, yeah. Welcome again, Danielle. All right. So let's we all know we all see it. AI and automation are transforming how we manage assets. No question. No question about it. But how do leaders keep their people adaptable, agile and emotionally invested during this great change?

Danielle Sprouls: Well, you know what? Most of the resistance, I think, is about the fear of the unknown. I mean, AI has just come in and taken over in really honestly magnificent ways. But because it's new and because it's not completely tested in, you know, with, let's say, the people, we need strong leaders that can educate and build that foundational trust. So you're building a digital infrastructure. What I'm saying is that we have to examine closely the human infrastructure, because if you don't do that, it won't be well implemented into the systems. People have to understand. But I think trust is at the foundation. There has to be, you know, T for test. Test your employees and help them understand the different ways that what you're offering to your owners in the commercial real estate space actually translates into their excitement. Right. Because we really have to get people to sign on and adopt what it is that you're offering in order for it to excel. And it really starts with the leadership. It starts with the C-suite.

Bill: Yeah, that's great. Well, so, I mean, you mentioned like your acronym or acrostic for pivot that you use for those five points. Maybe it's something within there or maybe it's something different. Is there something that you see like something that's most common that keeps teams from experiencing that transition quicker than they otherwise could?

Danielle Sprouls: Well, you know, when we're going to pivot, it doesn't mean that there's a change in vision. There's just usually a change in strategy. A pivot is an invitation when you have new information. That's where the whole WTF thing started, right? When we get these curveballs and we're saying WTF, right? And what I put forward is like, let's redefine what WTF is, or at least how it's experienced. So you got WTF, wisdom through failure. When we're going to pivot or we're going to do something or we're going to adopt AI or building owners, you're going to take on your, you know, your systems and whatnot. We have to first, what do we have to do? We have to pee in the pivot. We have to pause. Okay. Let's gain some clarity because sometimes what's loud and new is not the best choice. There's always a pause that is necessary in the beginning. A lot of us, I'm going to say myself included on any given day, don't want to pause. We want to embrace. And when something was flashy and exciting, we want to get on board. And that's not always necessarily the best choice. You have to be cognizant as to why you're buying, maybe your system or something else. And so it starts with the pause.

Bill: Well, sometimes there are pause long enough to ignore it and not even embrace it. So that's not, you're saying pause and actually take a read, rather than be scared of the new or ignore the new or never, never don't.

Danielle Sprouls: Yeah. Bill, you know, I, I mean, I, I constantly put forward, you know, the, the pause isn't about paralysis. It's about gaining clarity so that you can make that next move, right. It's to take stock into what is your next direction. But P stands for pause. It does not stand for paralysis. Nobody wants to do that. And it doesn't stand for procrastination either.

Overcoming Resistance and Embracing Change

Drew: We do see a lot of paralysis analysis, especially in the larger firms. When it gets to asset management, a lot of times it just dies in analysis. It being anything new, not just what we're doing, but anything new. So the commercial real estate operates well, but it operates well in hindsight, not in foresight, in our opinion.

Danielle Sprouls: You know, the commercial real estate community is just, it's just wild, right? Either they're like taking too long or they're moving too fast. I mean, rarely do you see like a complete balance in their activity. I mean, I'm just talking about being exposed to it for 30 years and, you know, sure. I was in commercial, you know, title insurance. Like what is that? I'll tell you what that is. That's at the forefront of everything that's going on now. It doesn't go into property management questions. And I know that you are dealing with owners that would be adopting your systems and integrating it into their work. That's going to raise their, you know, NOI and it's going to, you know, give them other ways to capture like revenue generating opportunity that otherwise would go to a third party. Right. So in my career during the course of those couple of decades, what I got to see is like just the psychological safety that was necessary from the leaders as like, you know, the sellers out there with his portfolio of commercial real estate across the country. And then you have like the buyers and also the lenders are coming in and the attorneys. So I got to see the evolution of the transactional process, which, you know, still fascinates me and I enjoy it. But today, instead of being in transactional mode, I'm in transformation mode. So I like to dig deep and help the leaders that are making those decisions and going through those processes to grow and excel the best way they can.

Bill: I hear a lot of the owners talk about risk, you know, the risk averse, which I understand, right? Because they have fiduciary responsibilities. So they're investors, whether they be lenders or actual limited partners. And they deal with regulation all the time. So here comes this, you know, AI, big hot topic, you're going to optimize your performance. They're hearing it all the time. But how do you suggest they pivot their mindset when the data starts pointing in uncomfortable directions? Like maybe they're learning things they didn't want to learn. How would you coach them on that?

Danielle Sprouls: Well, again, it goes down to trust, right? So what really exists? Where are you getting it from? So the things that, you know, OpticWise is probably offering, and I know you're not specifically talking about that. When I think about the adoption of anything new, that's foreign, the unknown, and that's how fear starts to creep in. That's why the pivot process is so important. So pause, do your research, who else is using this? How valid would all of whatever it is, not just your product per se, just in general. And then I identify the opportunities that are within this change, because oftentimes, any kind of change or disruption or anything new, and that's foreign, creates a sense of fear because it's not really fully understood. So there's always going to be inherent in any kind of pivot, some sort of risk, any kind of adoption of AI technology, a little bit of a risk.

Danielle Sprouls: This is a very dynamic sector, as you know. I mean, AI is changing all the time. And I do think that you have to be, you have to vet your options, look at what's available. It is changing all the time. I mean, just look at this week, Claude announced something and then OpenAI came out and said, oh yeah, we got that too. Last week, it was Apple making some announcement, Gemini will be the next one. I mean, the AI itself is growing faster than anybody can keep track of, let alone the providers.

Data-Driven Insights and Culture Shifts

Bill: Yeah, you know. I mean, have you seen examples of, or actually, can you share some examples where data-driven insights led to real culture shifts within an organization? And I don't mean technology, maybe it was in title insurance, maybe it was in other insurance, maybe it was in operations, maybe it was in outbound, market-facing, not just operational improvements. How have you seen culture shifts from data?

Danielle Sprouls: Absolutely, I mean, the data that's coming from AI in the last maybe five years, are you just talking about in general? I mean, you know, data anchors. The changes in the availability of data, like that is different now than it was five years ago, whether it's from AI or not, we are all looking for more data. What we do with it is a whole different question. AI is after that. If you don't have the data, AI can't help you.

Drew: Yeah, absolutely, if you don't have the data. But then here's the thing, it's not just about having the numbers because the numbers don't lie, but it's the interpretation of that information. It's the implementation of that information because unless you're going, if you're not going to implement it, what good is that?

Danielle Sprouls: So really where I come in, and I don't coach people on AI, I do coach people walking through discomfort and AI is a very uncomfortable thing for many of us because it is moving so fast because it comes from so many sources.

Bill: That's why we wanted you on the show to talk about this right here.

Leadership and Psychological Safety in Tech Adoption

Danielle Sprouls: Yes, and so then it becomes about psychological safety, you know, and what are the leaders? How astute are the leaders that are, you know, getting their teams gathered on whatever it is that they want to discuss? You know, maybe it's around AI. You really, this has to be where they're educated and they know how to communicate the importance and the advantages associated with those systems, associated with that data. Otherwise it can't be adopted, it can't be embraced, and it will not be implemented. So it all starts with whoever's leading the teams and it goes down to communication. I think that everything goes down to communication and how well they can execute that.

Drew: Yeah, that's fantastic, my gosh. I mean, I almost feel like you answered the question that I had for you here about owners and operators, what they can actually do to encourage or to build or just make it natural almost for their people to engage in that mental, or like you said, human infrastructure, but the mental infrastructure and the resilience across their team. So I hear you saying that communication, the importance and the advantages of doing it. And I mean, conversely, like the drawbacks of not doing it. You know, it's absolutely critical.

Danielle Sprouls: It's absolutely critical, but it starts with the leadership team being on board and then being well-informed. Because without that information, there will be no implementation. And, you know, it's like anything else, you know, describe analogies so that somebody could kind of relatably understand what it is you're saying, because a lot of the tech that's happening is foreign. It is new. And it's almost seems like we're going back to, I don't know, the Jetsons. Does anybody here remember the Jetsons?

Bill: Oh, yes. Not on TV, so if you're- I have a Roomba at home and I named her Rosie. I'm sure everybody named their Roomba Rosie, but-

Danielle Sprouls: It's like, is this real? But, you know, honestly, you have to ask yourself whenever you're uncomfortable with something conceptually, right? Think about all that exists that like, you know, listen, in any given town, more of a city-centric situation, but, you know, there are cars driving themselves. People are now getting into historically what were cabs with people driving, asking where you're gonna go. And there's nobody in the front seat. We thought Tesla was like so dynamic when it was like, oh, wow, this car can kind of drive itself, but you have to kind of touch it and you have to be in it. Now you don't even have to be in it.

Drew: Right. That's like, yeah, that was just about the passenger. Like nothing, you know, just let's celebrate all the advancements that have been made in technology and AI now is the boost as the real assist in that technology. You know, when we take out the human error, and I'm not gonna say that AI is not fallible. I think all things are because there's humans that are actually creating this and implementing it. So there's always room for error and there's always room for improvement, but it is downright fascinating what we have at our fingertips in 2025. And you can only imagine what is coming.

The Role of Communication in Real Estate Transformation

Danielle Sprouls: So with the adoption and the integration of systems like the two of you are putting out, I mean, this is huge, but it's introducing a mindset shift and who's gonna capture this? Who's gonna control this? Who's going to assist and serve? I mean, you know, anytime you come looking at it from a different direction, people are gonna have to say, wait, because now you're challenging beliefs that have been longstanding, things that are understood. You know, how could that be? Or why should it change? So there's always a little bit of job around that, but it comes back to communication.

Bill: And I love, you know, your five-step thing, clarify, connect, collect, coordinate, control. That C system is gold. It's absolutely gold.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah, we've come in contact with other folks too out there, conferences or whatnot, where a lot of that crosses over. So much of it crosses over. It's a common, common theme for sure. It's nice to hear somebody else use five Cs. Like I'll probably borrow your pivot structure as well. Thank you very much.

Danielle Sprouls: You have to borrow my WTF structure, nevermind pivot. Cause you know, anything I'll tell you, well, you know, all of my chapters are WTF. And so the first one is WTF, what's the framework? And that's what you're putting forth. Okay, what's the framework? What is it that we can do for the building? Winning through failure. I mean, I've had several failures in business, right? Thankfully I've had more wins than losses, but I've had some monumental failures in life that made me who I am.

Bill: Never brought you down. It's just, it was a bump in the road.

Danielle Sprouls: You know, being paralyzed is not that big of a deal. It's not a big deal at all. In fact, if you're not failing, you're not growing. And all failure is, is another F word, it's feedback. Failure is just feedback. And you know, I'm on a mission, I have a whole chapter dedicated to that, to let people know that they shouldn't fear failure. Failure is the process. Failure is the stretch. And when we talk about AI in implementing these new systems, there is going to be stumbles. You stumble before you soar. There are no shortcuts. And anybody looking for one is going to be sorely mistaken that they're going to find success, not sustainable success, because it's not out there. You have to fail and fail often, fail early.

Drew: Engaging with my adult sons, I teach them that all the time. Failure, a failure in life doesn't mean you are a failure. It means that that didn't work. So what did you learn from it? What can you do better next time? Like, because I have failed doesn't mean I am a failure. So I just choose never to believe that.

Danielle Sprouls: Yes, they're too hard. Yeah, you got to admit this too, because there's so much experimentation going on with technology in general, but specifically AI. People ask us all the time, what's the value of the data? And the answer honestly is, I don't know how big it is. It's large, but I don't know how big, because we don't even have your data yet. You don't have your data yet. How are you going to know until you have it? But just ownership of it, what you're both putting forth is recapturing ownership. Who doesn't want to own their data, their building's data? I mean, think about it. It just wasn't done previously or it's not widespread. So really, you have a challenge ahead of you, which I know that you're embracing wholeheartedly, and that's to educate. Because at the end of the day, this is all about educating people. That's what the podcast is and the book is. It's education. We're actually giving away how to do it too and what to do with it. We don't have to do it for you. You can do it yourself.

Ownership of Data and Its Impact on Asset Value

Bill: Right, exactly. So from your legal and advisory lens, in your years of commercial real estate, how does ownership of that data translate into asset value? We like asking this question because we get all kinds of answers from different angles, whether it's finance or legal and insurance or operations. So how would you answer that?

Danielle Sprouls: So to be clear, are you asking me how does ownership of the data that you provide through your business, how do I think that that would be? I would owning like a building or a portfolio of buildings, actually owning the data that their buildings are generating. How would that translate into asset value? As opposed to five years ago where they just operated based on when they got the utility bill rather than.

Drew: Yeah, okay. So then it becomes something that used to be an expense, a line item, something that cost you something to something that actually can be working for you. I mean, I don't know anybody who doesn't own something that doesn't want information on what they own, right? So let's take it down to a personal life, family. I wanna know as much about my kids as possible. I don't want just their teachers educating them and I have no clue as to what they're learning. So recapturing that is very empowering. I think it's extremely important. So I love what you're putting out there.

Danielle Sprouls: I mean, that doesn't necessarily touch my career, but it touches the people that I coach. The majority of the people that I do coach tend to be in commercial real estate because that's been my universe for a very long time. And it's still where I network freely. Those are the conferences I go to. That's the language I understand. That's the mindset and the people and the rhythm that I have been holding arms with for a few decades. But it's about taking back your power, right? I teach empowerment. I explain to people that I coach and to teams within companies how they can renegotiate their mindset.

Drew: So they can see how much control they actually have once they gain a sense of clarity. And what you're doing is you're literally giving back the power to those building owners by saying this is your asset, this is not your line item. So it's, you know, effectively that raises revenue generating thing for me, it raises mindset generating, you know, and everything is about not just about mindset but about the culture, about the understanding of what's going on. And it all begins with the leadership, right? It all begins like take back control and that's what you're offering building owners through your systems is to take back control that they used to actually freely giving away and see how useful that data can be.

Bill: Yeah, yeah, that's great. I mean, I like that question that you said like what is it amongst the things that you own that you don't want to know about, right? It's you own it for a reason and the more information you have about it, the better you can make a decision as to whether you should continue to own the thing. So yeah, it all boils down to that data, very powerful.

Danielle Sprouls: All right, I'm sorry.

Drew: No, no, no, I was gonna say it all starts with your first seat which is clarified, right? Clarity is everything.

Bill: Yeah, we talked about no that's the known unknown, the unknown unknown wouldn't give you a pivot point for instance but if you don't know what you don't know then you're more at risk but you also can't make a decision to solve it. At least if you know what you don't know it's a whole different strategy.

Danielle Sprouls: Well, you know, okay, I'm gonna challenge that. I don't know if I understood you correctly but this one I say I think, I think well everything I wake up today and I just say I know nothing. And then you sure I know a lot, I'll have diplomas, you know, my wall that will tell you that I'm learned. The truth is I know there's more to know and what I want to make sure even when I come into coaching teams and whatnot is that I'm not making any assumptions. So yes, I know what I know but I never want that to cloud my understanding or the expansion of my mindset and brain because this and this is so important when it comes to AI whatnot because if I come in with preconceived ideas I won't have the capability of understanding the nuances and the growth and the expansion that is delivered like weekly in AI, right? So I'm comfortable with what I don't know, I'm always seeking to know more. I think that curiosity is a superpower when you embrace it as such fear gets a little bit diminished because you start to realize that this is good, I want to understand what's happening. But what I do understand is that what I understand today may not be, it's not that it's gonna change, it's gonna be bigger tomorrow. So I'm totally comfortable with knowing that I know we have a way record value here at OpticWise to always be learning so you can find a better way. Yes, we might accept the status quo, there's always a better way. No, but today we act on the information that we have, right? So that doesn't mean just sit around and wait for the next 12 hours.

Drew: We're definitely saying the same information.

Danielle Sprouls: Yeah, look, we're besties and we just met. It's interesting because a real quick note on that movement from unknown unknown is a known unknown. I think if I could say something that's the simplest form of transitioning from that state one to state two it would be this: like to a building owner, do you have the ability to control your lights based on all these different environmental conditions? So maybe there's 20 different conditions and they say I'm not sure and then you take a walk around the building and you go up to floor seven, closet J, and you open the door and there's something hanging on the wall that looks like it probably does that but it may not even be connected. So that I would say that that's one of many many examples of going from an unknown unknown, I don't even know if I can, to it looks like I can and now I know that I don't know what that thing can be. So just to bring a little bit of tangibility into the commercial real estate, the physical infrastructure of it all. So it's kind of it converges I think with what we're saying though because it's a quest for realizing that you don't know everything for sure but there's gold nuggets all over the place if you just kind of keep your mind open your eyes.

Bill: There's always and you know what it's really important that companies appoint fearless leaders and I don't mean just one because you know when we talk about the implementation of AI or how it's utilized and whatnot there's a lot of I don't wanna say older because I don't want to date anybody okay so it's more of a mindset thing than it's an age thing and they don't want to know because they can't even wrap their head around it so that can act as a barrier so it's so important for companies to recognize that even if you've got like you know the top person guy or girl whatever a woman or man in place if they are resistant to change they're not the ones that should be communicating and educating the teams. I'm not saying to be shown the door necessarily but make sure that you have the right touch people the right touch points so that there are there's not like gates that are blocking all this information all this opportunity because you know that really becomes a hindrance we're like well we didn't do it like that or they just they don't want to understand because they're overwhelmed.

Danielle Sprouls: And you know one of the things that I consistently see and I understand why is that people at the top that are making these decisions maybe even the ones buying your product I mean hopefully they're they've got the right tech people in place that could appreciate and understand but at the end of the day it's like they don't want to look stupid so sometimes people making these decisions aren't learned in that and it's not familiar because it is pretty much brand-new all this AI stuff because what five years I mean really I and it's only maybe in the last two and a half where people are implementing it like regular people are implementing all this stuff that they're not resistant to it because they don't want to feel stupid because whenever you're learning something new I don't care how brilliant you are in whatever factor you are in life you when you're learning something new you're back to a beginner and that is not necessarily comfortable it's just not because you don't understand so as long as you stay curious which is a core value in your company it's a core value in what I coach on you will be fine you know don't worry about what you don't know just seek it out and have a hunger to understand.

Drew: Yeah hunger to understand and I think it's still true I mean unless I mean I'm not up-to-date on brain science but I will tell you that in doing some leadership classes in my days at IBM that brain science showed that it's just an absolute fact as we age that it's something that we must like exercise against is that that natural tendency to kind of close in a little bit and be a little bit more fearful of those unknowns it's like clinging to safety almost.

Danielle Sprouls: And you know what I'm doing the opposite because I'm not all that young I mean according to the calendar but in life I'm like I'm like five years old I am more playful and more adventurous I mean I was jumped out of a plane my kids for God's sakes I'm like let's go WTF chapter is that for sure you know what it is it's WTF work toward fulfillment I move towards fulfillment with great intention on a daily basis both in my work life and in my personal life and I no longer put the the chains on myself so the minute that I feel like I want to do something but I'm uncomfortable because it's new when I'm stretching or am I going to be good at it I was like oh no I honor my inner voice today in a way that I never did early on and I don't look for permission outside of myself if it's something I should be doing I give myself permission and I used to look to you and you and you and I wanted everybody tell me it was okay and even then I may or may not do it and today I grant her permission and we're just like we're just going all over it's absolutely phenomenal and it's WTF work toward fulfillment fantastic.

Personal Insights and Closing Thoughts

Bill: Okay this is great this is great so Danielle we're gonna shift to something we call the extra floor so the way we close out all of our podcasts we just fire off there's gonna be five quick questions just gut level responses whatever comes to your mind.

Drew: So question number one what's a book or a podcast that has shaped how you think?

Danielle Sprouls: Oh gosh okay real fast Mel Robbins the five high the high five habit.

Bill: Mm-hmm do you want to know why?

Danielle Sprouls: Yeah I read it really quick it just you know everything's about timing in life and I read her book maybe six years ago at a time where I think I needed to give myself a little bit more of a congratulatory note and this silly little book by Mel Robbins was telling you that you should take a post-it note stick it on your mirror every morning and give yourself a high-five and like you know say you did great and I thought this is the stupidest thing ever and what I learned in that moment and in that practice is that doing silly things actually can stick they kind of shift your brainwaves and it made me laugh and I think that at the at the core of everything is that you have to have some joy and levities and laughter I am very very big on laughter and so that book at that time is what I needed and so that's the answer to that question.

Drew: That's great oh my gosh that's great well at the risk of being redundant given your answer what's the best piece of career or life advice you've ever received?

Danielle Sprouls: That nobody nobody should stop me if there's something that I want to do I remember a mentor years ago when I came into New York and I started doing commercial real estate he told me trust your intuitive self and and I did that to some degree and that's how I became really successful but I didn't full-blown do that until recently and I do think that pain is a catalyst to change and there were certain things in my life that had to happen that kind of created a rock bottom for me and then in that discomfort you have a choice you can either grow or you can die and I chose to grow I will always choose a person a friend or think if I saw that they went through something hard because I think that that's a step that's character building it's so I choose my friends I choose the people I hire pretty much based on how much they have struggled and got to the

Danielle Sprouls: If you're still in a struggle bus, well, I'll send you some flowers and we'll talk and I'll be there for you. But I'm not gonna hire you. But if you got off that bus, oh, you're a warrior. I love to be surrounded by warriors and I claim to be one as well.

Drew: That's great. What's a small daily habit or ritual that makes a big difference for you?

Danielle Sprouls: Gratitude lists and prayer every day. So I am more spiritual than I am religious. I was raised Catholic from the get-go. Nuns and priests teaching me. I went to Catholic nursery school. I went to Catholic College and I even went to Seton Hall for law school. But the power of prayer is in my life huge and God just continues to infiltrate my life on every single level and that is who I consult with all the time. So that's what I would tell you about that.

Bill: What's something you've learned to appreciate more with time?

Danielle Sprouls: The power of silence. Taking a beat and listening. I mean as you can see I talk. I'm from Jersey. I'm type A. I'm a Leo. I can talk a lot. The power of silence not only in the opportunities I get to listen but also when there's like a nothingness going on. I have created on my calendar, and it's not that it's systematically put there, but what I'll call white space. I make sure that I, on a daily basis, will have it where there's nothing happening. No TV. No cell phone. Sometimes it's three minutes. Sometimes it's 30. But just the power of silence and what comes in that. And that can be really achieved too for most people through meditative practices, which I used to do consistently with transcendental meditation years ago. I don't do it all the time, but that was another life-changing moment where I thought I am not gonna sit still for 20 minutes a day. Like this is insane or I was incapable. What I learned is when you sit in silence or when you can appreciate the power of silence, you will regain clarity and control so much faster. Anytime you dedicate, whether it's three minutes, three hours, or 30 minutes, it doesn't matter. You will grease the wheels of your life. So the power of silence would be the answer.

Drew: Yeah. All right. Last one, number five. When you're not working, what do you love to do that recharges you?

Danielle Sprouls: Ah, sometime with my kids. I have four kids or my husband or my dogs. I am so blessed with an abundance of family and love. Yes, that's what you'll find me doing. I mean hobby wise, golfing. I'm not very good. I am married to a golf pro. He teaches people how to golf. I just kind of laughed through his lessons. Love him to pieces. But yeah, I just, you know, I started to do spend time with family.

Bill: Yeah, well, that's great. Daniel, tell our listeners how they can contact you if they're interested.

Danielle Sprouls: So the best way to find me is to go to my website, unscriptedpivots.com. It's spelled just the way it sounds. From there, you can find out about the WTF book. I'm on Instagram. I'm regularly on X, also known as Twitter back in the day. I do a lot on there, own spaces and whatnot, and all the things, Substack, YouTube. I mean all sorts of little pockets in little ways, not huge ways. I'm not a social media icon, but I am the WTF lady and I am a force to be reckoned with. I am there just to help people understand that their pivot brings promise and that their curveball doesn't need to be the end. It's not an obstacle. It's an opportunity. So visit me at unscriptedpivots.com.

Drew: Yeah, that's a great way to end it. Daniel, thank you so much for being with us today. And thanks to all our listeners for joining us again today. Be sure to follow, like, subscribe, all those things, and we'll see you on the next episode of PPP.